If you've got beefy enough hardware, you could always install the lesser
used platform as a virtual machine. I use VM Player, but there are a
number of solutions. I run Win7 as mi primary platform, but I have XP
and Ubuntu running as virtual machines. Frankly, it's easy to forget
they're not dedicated machines. The added benefit is that they can run
at the same time - no need to select one or the other at boot time.
On 12/26/2014 11:19 AM, Mike Hartigan wrote:
Virtual machines are a good idea, although it helps to have plenty of RAM.
Also, I find it better to use Linux for the host machine. It's more
stable, and makes backups (of the Windows machines) easy. The whole
Windows disk is a file on the Linux system.
BTW, When the physical machine I had this setup (multiple Windows on
Linux host) on failed, it was very easy to transfer everything to
another computer. There was a minor problem with a different IP address,
but otherwise everything went well.
Maybe, if you're building from scratch and buying new licenses.
For most of us, owning a windows machine, it's far less stressful
to run linux virtually.
Linux may not have drivers for your lan interface or all the functions
of your mouse or your sound card or..or..or.
But Linux probably does have drivers for the emulated devices.
Windows copy protection is rather fragile. I've had windows revert to
"pirated" after an update of VirtualBox. Or a change in memory
allocated to the windows virtual machine.
I haven't looked recently, but I never found a way to convert
a preinstalled licensed native windows installation to
a licensed virtual windows
installation. Yes, there are tutorials, I just never made any of them
work in the time I was willing to devote to it.
Not a problem if you started with a license key that validates online.
If you start with an OEM-specific version that self-validates, that
can be an issue. Yes, there are tutorials for that too. And if linux
is your primary focus, you'll probably enjoy the fun of trying to make
all that work.
I have no idea what all this new disk configuration strategy and
locking the install to the BIOS does relative to installing windows
My experience too. It works great up until the time that it doesn't.
Keep a copy of the VM so you can recover if the activation gets trashed.
The above (building from scratch...) works better, but you can't do that
with a laptop.
Windows is still more fragile, SOME of which you described below.
True. Also, sometimes Linux works better with those devices.
It is. That may be my biggest reason for preferring win2k.
BTW, I DO NOT support using Windows without paying for it, and have
never done so. I do wish to avoid the problems caused by corporate
paranoia, with Windows constantly assuming you did that ("guilty until
proven innocent, and then guilty again").
I haven't either. I would create a new installation for the VM. It may
take longer, but you get something better.
OEM versions are often made to work only with certain hardware, and so
refuse to install on a VM. I try to avoid using them, but actually buy a
And will have learned something in the process.
Sounds like you're referring to "secure boot". This does not work with
BIOS, but with recent UEFI firmware, which is a replacement for BIOS.
You may need to turn this off to use Linux as a primary OS (Ubuntu
supports secure boot). This will have no effect on installing a VM.
My regular backup on that machine (data backup, simpler on Linux)
includes both the VM and the file that contains the system drive for it.
Ditto. Sounds like a lot of work and too many chances for me to screw
something up. I've got a good-running 2000 machine, so I'll leave it
alone, bite the bullet and get a new one. Another expense...
Now a new problem - all the new machines have Win 8 or 8.1 installed.
I have a new OEM Win 7 DVD, so ... here we go again....
On 12/26/2014 10:56 AM, Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney wrote:
It's hard to be specific when you won't disclose your
"special situation." We have to read between the lines.
When I suggested a second computer, I meant a $1 garage sale computer
with XP on it. Last summer, they were so plentiful that I had to quit
picking up the free ones. It's hard to get more than one bungee'd
onto a motorcycle. As time marches on, the $1/Free machines are
running Vista. And, despite all the bitching about it, Vista
runs quite well for most things.
And there are refurbs showing up on the web all the time.
If you're gonna buy a new computer with preinstalled windows 8.1
it seems wasteful to use up a perfectly good win7 license.
I like win7 best, but I played with win8.1.
If you put on one of the startmenu fix programs, you really
can't tell much difference.
I put links to all the programs I use on the desktop and rarely
use any part of the windows user interface anyway.
Once you get past the bad press and patch the start menu, it's
perfectly usable. And unless you're willing to switch to Linux,
you don't have much choice going forward. Get used to it! ;-)
If you can wait a bit, Windows 10 is around the corner.
You can download a free pre-release that's good for six months??
Seems to work OK for everything I tried, just provides nothing new
that I want. I forgot to rearm it and it expired.
But, you'll have to buy and reload the final version.
No matter what you do, coming from win2K,
you're likely to run into driver and compatibility
issues, but advice on that will have to wait for some disclosure
of the "special situation."
I liked win2k. I'd still be using it if they had drivers for
I tried to put win2K on a current generation machine.
Didn't have drivers for sound/video/lan. Basically useless.
This is absolutely the wrong newsgroup to get help on this topic.
But, we do what we can to help.
I did too. I remember when I called XP the "high blood sugar*" version.
BTW, what actually got me to change is that I got a high-speed internet
connection, and that didn't work so well with w2k (IIRC, it would limit
speed to about 1Mbps per TCP connection, rather than the 8mbps I had).
Drivers made for XP would usually work, but now that's old too. I
usually just use w2k on old computers.
* - I know some people with diabetes, and one of the effects of high
blood sugar is that is stimulates the kidneys, leading to "eXtra Pee".
On 12/27/2014 12:51 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
<snip> > Didn't have drivers for sound/video/lan. Basically useless.
Yep. I went so far as to extract all the drivers from an XP cd
and once decompressed, I burned them to a cd so I could use them on the
Win2k machines I worked on.
The only drivers that caused problems were on-board video.
For win7 32bit machines I did manage to find a driver DVD that "picks
up" most drivers not included with the OS
On 12/26/2014 12:56 PM, Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney wrote:
Glad you have abandoned your idea of loading XP on your Win2k machine.
You'd go through a lot of work just to still have a now obsolete OS
along with obsolete hardware.
If you get a new Win8 machine there is no need to put Win7 on it.
All you need is to install the latest version of Classic Shell (free)
and it will convert the GUI into one virtually identical to Win7
No tiles to deal with.
If you load Win7 on a new machine , more than likely you can kiss the
On Fri, 26 Dec 2014 10:56:53 -0800, "Snuffy \"Hub Cap\" McKinney"
You should be able to find an XP pro machine for $50 or less with the
benefit that it may have an Office COA on it too.
Companies are throwing them away although most may already be gone.
I just got a 3mz dual core Dell, 3g memory, XP pro with an upgrade
display card (HDMI) and full office 2007 COA ... on it's way to a
As long as you have the COAs with the number, you can reload it from
Actually, my experience here is that you and others on this group are
LOTS more help than the typical computer group. I have tried getting
help with anything from computers to cars and everything in between on
what should be a more appropriate group but this one by far has the most
diverse and knowledgeable, helpful and practical folks.
Other favorites for "real" help I have found are rec.crafts.metalworking
and rec.gardens - 2nd and 3rd to this one.
Agreed. I have 16 gig of RAM. VMWare sings on this configuration! :)
VMWare's vCenter Converter (a free program) will create a virtual
machine from a physical machine. When I upgraded to Win7 a few years
ago, I used it (or a similar product) to create a virtual image of my
Windows Vista box and it worked fine.
If you have problems with a Windows machine reverting to pirated, a call
to Microsoft is all that should be necessary to right it. As long as
you legitimately own a licanse, they'll 'fix' it for you over the phone.
I'll check that one out. I've got a lot of stuff running under
virtualbox. I'm a little bit afraid of VMWare competing for resources.
I guess there are also utilities to convert a VMWare virtual disk to
something compatible with virtualbox.
I have used utilities that claimed to do the
same thing. In at least one case, I was presented with the "do you want
to activate windows online now or reboot" screen. Since the lan driver
had changed, I couldn't get online. Didn't try the phone, because
I believed I was clearly in violation of the license terms...Maybe it
would have worked anyway.
I think I also tried syspreping the system before converting with
similar results. The symptom does seem to vary with the hardware
and software setup.
Well, I believe that what you say is true. If you have a preinstalled
windows that you remove, by whatever means, and reinstall, by whatever
means, to a virtual machine, you probably run afoul of your license terms.
And how do you manage the partitions and the windows boot partition?
Everything I've read says that in order to remove the boot partition,
you have do to some manual editing in the configurations/pointers.
That should be way more complex than just pointing vmware at the
virtual C: drive??
For me, the bottom line was, using a win7 host ain't broke, don't fix it.
I'm far more likely to want to run a different version of another
than another windows instance.
Linux is far more robust in the face of hardware changes for the
hardware that it supports.
One thing I just realized is that my source system was a single-core
hyperthreaded machine that windows reported at two processors.
The target machine's virtual setup allocated only one processor.
Wonder if that had any effect on the HAL?
So many variables...so little time...
| > You can also install Linux and use that as a boot manager,
| > but in my experience Linux is somewhat brittle, so I don't
| > like to depend on it. Also, the Linux partitioning/booting
| > tools are poorly designed and not at all intuitive. It's very
| > easy to accidentally erase Windows while trying to get Linux
| > installed.
| I never had Linux erase Windows.
Not on its own, but it's not easy to avoid mishaps.
Linux uses a different naming system for partitions
and recent versions are apt to "suggest" installing
to the first partition and thereby erasing it. (It used to
be that Linux was designed for Windows people
setting up a second boot, but these days it's more
apt to assume, like Windows, that it's the only show
I have a dozen-odd partitions on 2 disks. The only
way to be sure the Linux installer does what I want is
to carefully write down the partition sizes before
proceeding and then match those up to what the
Linux installer reports. Someone new to the whole
thing is likely to get confused at that point and
accept the suggested choice, possibly losing their
Windows install in the process.
| Using 2 physical drives should avoid the problem.
I've multi-booted for many years and have no
trouble, but I don't depend on either Linux or
Windows to handle things. I do all partitioning
and boot management with BootIt.
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