Septic tanks and water softener options

The UPS guy just delivered 5 boxes from

formatting link
to me containing a Fleck 2510SE 40K unit. Haven't had a chance to hook it up yet, but it looks nice out of the box. They forgot to include the resin funnel, so I'll need to cut a bleach bottle down. :)

No connection to the company other than they seem to run a good operation and the prices were reasonable.

That's kind of my feeling. NaCl runs around $5 a 40# bag, KCl runs $7 or so. Not worth worrying about.

-- "Tell me what I should do, Annie." "Stay. Here. Forever." - Life On Mars

Reply to
Rick Blaine
Loading thread data ...

Rick,

Remember that 50 gallons of softener effluent isn't clean water, it includes "x" many pounds of NaCl or KCl.

That 2510SE should last you a long time and buying mail order is one option if you don't need service.

One tip for you... even though your softener probably includes a bypass plumb (if it doesn't then get one) a 3 ball valve bypass also. That way, if the Fleck bypass ever leaks or you have to completely remove the softener you can bypass that and still have water while you're waiting for the parts to fix it. Ball valves are cheap and being without water sucks.

Reply to
justalurker

...

... While it is not a great expense, KCl is about twice the price. Potassium is heavier so you get fewer molecules per pound. Specifically, a pound of NaCl has 1.27 times as many molecules (and softening power) and a pound of KCl.

Around here, the BORG seems cheapest for KCl at $8.29 per 40#. NaCl is $4.49. If the NaCl bags are also 40#, that would be

2.35 times the price, but I think that the NaCl bags are 50#, so that would put KCl at 2.94 times the price.
Reply to
M Q

That's true... If you are buying 40 lbs of salt a month, that's 40 lbs of salt going into the septic system.

I've been known to sweat copper on occasion. :)

Agreed. I have a nice SS one.

-- "Tell me what I should do, Annie." "Stay. Here. Forever." - Life On Mars

Reply to
Rick Blaine

tanksoftenershould regenerate every 7 or 8 days. If yoursofteneris

Very few States/locations call for no discharge to city sewer or onsite septic systems. Those few that do usually stipulate a dry well be used. Those that don't, ban on site regenerated softeners all together. Dry wells and french style drains can very easily contaminate the groundwater and eventually a home's private well water.

A french drain is not a dry well although some french style drains may end in a dry well, very rarely will water make it into the dry well, because of how a french style drain works.

There are a number of reasons a correctly sized softener will be set up to regenerate more frequently than every 7-8 days.

Yes most twin tank softeners are undersized, especially Kinetico.

Gary Slusser Quality Water Associates

Reply to
Gary Slusser

More likely is the fact that there are many things in water that will clog up a dry well than 'salt'.

Also, some of the 'salt' is used by the softener rather than going out the drain line; specifically part of the sodium or potassium.

.. "...using more salt than necessary...undersized and regenerating more often than necessary"... "which would increase the softener effluent dramatically". There are serious contradictions in those comments. Steve, you need to learn more about the set up and sizing of softeners and how that all impacts on regeneration schedules, water volume used/per regeneration and salt efficiency.

Gary Slusser Quality Water Associates

Reply to
Gary Slusser

The amount of 'salt' a softener uses is based on the amount and type of resin in the softener's resin tank. The volume of 'salt' used is variable from one softener to the next and can be widely different from one to another although they are the same brand or physical size.

Gary Slusser Quality Water Associates

Reply to
Gary Slusser

The volume of discharge is dictated by many things and is specific to each softener and its programming but, the salt dose is set in lbs (3lbs/gallon of water) and it varies greatly while some softeners even vary each regeneration's volume of brine; or said another way, the salt dose.

Frankly that is totally wrong and Steve, you should know better.

Absolutely not true! WRONG.

That's basically untrue too.

Potassium chloride is one of the chemicals used for lethal injection death sentence chemicals. It's called salt substitute. Too much potassium, measured as a small amount, will do a heart patient in very quickly and not more than a few tablespoons will take out a very healthy young dude, or dudette. It also makes things grow much larger and in greater numbers than those same things getting less potassium. I've never heard of any studies concerning its use and septic systems.

Yes you "fine tuned" it because you and I differed on how to program the softener I sold you in July 2004, using a Clack WS-1 control valve. And then you disagreed on what the salt dose should be increased to when you use potassium chloride instead of sodium chloride with high salt efficiency salt dose settings.

BTW, aren't you lucky you didn't get a Kinetico. You can't change the hardness without buying a new disc and replacing the old one by taking their control valve apart. And you can't change the salt dose until you know how much higher to raise the cheap Styrofoam float in the brine tank.

Gary Slusser Quality Water Associates

Reply to
Gary Slusser

I've never heard of any limit on the amount of discharge in CA or anywhere else, can you directs us to your source for that information?

Gary Slusser Quality Water Associates

Reply to
Gary Slusser

That is pretty meaningless innuendo. Nobody is injecting the brine from their water softener.

The oral toxicities of NaCL (table salt) and Kcl are pretty similar. LD50 for NaCl is 3.75 g/Kg, and KCl is just slightly more toxic at

2.5 to 3.02 g/Kg (depending upon which source you read). That means you would need about 200g to kill about half of 170 pound dudes. That's a lot more than a few tablespoons.
Reply to
M Q

Here you go...

formatting link
formatting link
formatting link
formatting link

Reply to
justalurker

Guess I'll stop eating bananas becuase there's potassium in them.

Gary often opens his mouth just to change feet.

Reply to
justalurker

Speaking of heart patients, who aren't supposed to get too much of either potassium or Viagra, and then talking about making things grow much larger

*and in greater numbers*, well, I don't want to talk about what went through my head that time.

Q: How do you know if you gave your artichoke hearts too much fertilizer? A: Severe pain up the artichoke's left arm.

Reply to
clifto

It worked fine for me. I ran the discharge line from my softener to the sump pump, which in turn discharged to a low spot in the yard. I planted water-loving plants back there (cattails and poplars) and they thrived. I believe that since the softener exchanges ions, if it is adjusted correctly, what it discharges should not contain much NaCl, although it does contain other salts. -- H

Reply to
Heathcliff

More efficient.... efficiency is based on how the softener control valve is programmed in relation to the volume and type of resin used in the softener. The size of the resin tank is dictated by the volume of resin in the tank.

Efficiency has nothing to do with the brand of resin tank or brine tank (or the size of brine tank), the brand of control valve (except the Autotrol Logix timer which only has three salt dose settings and used on various Autotrol control valves) or the brand of resin (there are at least 6 manufacturers of softener resin with numerous resins to choose from).

As to control valves, I suggest the Clack WS-1 as the best valve for DIYers. It is the easiest and fastest to repair and the parts are the lowest priced of all valves. Three Fleck engineers designed the Clack line of valves and copied and improved the piston, seal and spacer design Fleck has been famous for since 1953.

Clack is huge in the manufacturing of all kinds of parts and equipment for the water quality improvement industry from residential to industrial sized equipment. Clack has been in business since 1946, longer than anyone else manufacturing this stuff.

Many companies that had used Fleck valves for decades have dropped Fleck and gone to Clack, as many dealers and plumbing and pump supply houses have also. Fleck is raising their prices again (this year) by

7%. To my knowledge Clack hasn't raised their prices since 2000 but I've only been selling their valves since Jan 2 2004, but the prices haven't raised since then. I've sold roughly 880 of hem and had only 19 problems. And they are the lowest parts prices of any valve manufacturer. And there are no special, control valve model specific tools need to rebuild/repair a Clack like the Fleck 1500, 2510, 3600, 5600, 6600, 6700 and 7000 valves all require.

Now justalurker has said that he doesn't need the special tools for the 5600, and agrees with a guy that says he doesn't need the tools for a 2510. Before I'd believe it I'd have to see them replace the seals and spacers in any of those valves except the 7000 without the tools.

Truth be known, justalurker has a 1.5 cuft softener in his garage with a Clack WS-1 control valve on it that he bought from me in Jul 2004. He says he took it out and gave it to a buddy of his to be used as a door stop in his shed... he refuses to send me a picture of his garage showing a different softener, or none in his garage in Edgewood NM. I have pictures of his garage with the one I sold him.

Gary Slusser Quality Water Associates

Reply to
Gary Slusser

And this menutia has nothing to do with you statement "I've never heard of any limit on the amount of discharge in CA or anywhere else, can you directs us to your source for that information?"

since you seem "Googling challenged" when you can't bullshit everybody I've ALREADY provided you with just a FEW links that are on point.

Here you go, again...

formatting link
formatting link
formatting link
formatting link
Read and learn...

Please stop holding me responsible for the limitiations of your mechanical skills.

Reply to
justalurker

A manual three way by pass valve is a bad idea. Factory by-pass valves rarely if ever leak and when they do, it is a small drip and usually tightening a screw on Fleck SS BPs strps it.

Some codes are not allowing three way BPs anyway.

Gary Slusser Quality Water Associates

Reply to
Gary Slusser

PROVE IT!

Reply to
justalurker

You've replied to the wrong post but.... if you are replying to my comment: "Very few States/locations call for no discharge to city sewer or onsite septic systems.". Then you must think that 4 links to the State of CA is a lot. I don't.

I've read it all and there is no mention of limiting the volume of a softener's discharge. The only use of the word is concerning the limitation of salinity in their sewer system, not an individual residential households' waste stream.

Are you aware that most if not all those regs were overturned through legal action?

I suspect the last three articles/links above are on the same banning residential softeners subject instead of showing me were the discharge from a softener into a city sewer is limited as in the volume rather than banned outright. So I won't be reading them, copy paste where it says they limit volume rather than ban it altogether and I'll read it.

Gary Slusser Quality Water Associates

Reply to
Gary Slusser

Those using potassium chloride to regenerate their water softener, and then drinking or cooking with the softened water, are ingesting it potassium. Any idea of how much, albeit the amount varies based on the ion exchange being done by each individual softener and, how much softened water they ingest?

It also says someone considers it toxic to humans. And maybe it would take days for them to die instead minutes to hours?

Maybe a quick scan of the labels on any brand of salt substitute would help.

I'm told one says; "Persons having diabetes, heart or kidney disease, or persons receiving medical treatment should consult a physician before using a salt alternative or substitute.".

Another' "Consult physician before using any salt substitute."

I don't know, does a bag of table salt have the same comments on its label?

Do bags of potassium chloride used in softeners have any such statements on their label?

Gary Slusser Quality Water Associates

Reply to
Gary Slusser

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.