Septic tanks and water softener options

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On Sep 4, 7:50 pm, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

A manual three way by pass valve is a bad idea. Factory by-pass valves rarely if ever leak and when they do, it is a small drip and usually tightening a screw on Fleck SS BPs strps it.
Some codes are not allowing three way BPs anyway.
Gary Slusser Quality Water Associates
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PROVE IT!
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On Sep 6, 5:23 pm, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

I can't, plumbers and prospective customers have told me.
Gary Slusser Quality Water Associates
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Rick Blaine wrote:
...

... While it is not a great expense, KCl is about twice the price. Potassium is heavier so you get fewer molecules per pound. Specifically, a pound of NaCl has 1.27 times as many molecules (and softening power) and a pound of KCl.
Around here, the BORG seems cheapest for KCl at $8.29 per 40#. NaCl is $4.49. If the NaCl bags are also 40#, that would be 2.35 times the price, but I think that the NaCl bags are 50#, so that would put KCl at 2.94 times the price.
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On Sep 4, 1:07 pm, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

The volume of discharge is dictated by many things and is specific to each softener and its programming but, the salt dose is set in lbs (3lbs/gallon of water) and it varies greatly while some softeners even vary each regeneration's volume of brine; or said another way, the salt dose.

Frankly that is totally wrong and Steve, you should know better.

Absolutely not true! WRONG.

That's basically untrue too.

Potassium chloride is one of the chemicals used for lethal injection death sentence chemicals. It's called salt substitute. Too much potassium, measured as a small amount, will do a heart patient in very quickly and not more than a few tablespoons will take out a very healthy young dude, or dudette. It also makes things grow much larger and in greater numbers than those same things getting less potassium. I've never heard of any studies concerning its use and septic systems.

Yes you "fine tuned" it because you and I differed on how to program the softener I sold you in July 2004, using a Clack WS-1 control valve. And then you disagreed on what the salt dose should be increased to when you use potassium chloride instead of sodium chloride with high salt efficiency salt dose settings.
BTW, aren't you lucky you didn't get a Kinetico. You can't change the hardness without buying a new disc and replacing the old one by taking their control valve apart. And you can't change the salt dose until you know how much higher to raise the cheap Styrofoam float in the brine tank.
Gary Slusser Quality Water Associates
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Gary Slusser wrote:

That is pretty meaningless innuendo. Nobody is injecting the brine from their water softener.

The oral toxicities of NaCL (table salt) and Kcl are pretty similar. LD50 for NaCl is 3.75 g/Kg, and KCl is just slightly more toxic at 2.5 to 3.02 g/Kg (depending upon which source you read). That means you would need about 200g to kill about half of 170 pound dudes. That's a lot more than a few tablespoons.

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Guess I'll stop eating bananas becuase there's potassium in them.
Gary often opens his mouth just to change feet.
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Those using potassium chloride to regenerate their water softener, and then drinking or cooking with the softened water, are ingesting it potassium. Any idea of how much, albeit the amount varies based on the ion exchange being done by each individual softener and, how much softened water they ingest?

It also says someone considers it toxic to humans. And maybe it would take days for them to die instead minutes to hours?

Maybe a quick scan of the labels on any brand of salt substitute would help.
I'm told one says; "Persons having diabetes, heart or kidney disease, or persons receiving medical treatment should consult a physician before using a salt alternative or substitute.".
Another' "Consult physician before using any salt substitute."
I don't know, does a bag of table salt have the same comments on its label?
Do bags of potassium chloride used in softeners have any such statements on their label?
Gary Slusser Quality Water Associates
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Gary Slusser wrote:

Speaking of heart patients, who aren't supposed to get too much of either potassium or Viagra, and then talking about making things grow much larger *and in greater numbers*, well, I don't want to talk about what went through my head that time.
Q: How do you know if you gave your artichoke hearts too much fertilizer? A: Severe pain up the artichoke's left arm.
--
If you really believe carbon dioxide causes global warming,
you should stop exhaling.
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About 50 gallons per recharge. For most residential users that should be 100 gal per month. Basically the same amount of water as 2 ten minute showers and less than most washing machines use in a single cycle. Considering the average residential water use is 75-100 gal a day per person, it's pretty insignificant.

I suppose it might be better.
-- "Tell me what I should do, Annie." "Stay. Here. Forever." - Life On Mars
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The amount of 'salt' a softener uses is based on the amount and type of resin in the softener's resin tank. The volume of 'salt' used is variable from one softener to the next and can be widely different from one to another although they are the same brand or physical size.
Gary Slusser Quality Water Associates
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I have water that is between 26 and 30g hardness and I have a septic system. I've read many studies that tried to determine if the effluent (waste) that is the result of regeneration of a water softener causes damage to septic systems. None of the studies that I found and read concluded that the waste harmed the septic tank or the septic process with softeners using either NaCl or KCl.
Some localities mandate that the drain from a softener must not be routed to a sewer line or a septic system but rather to a seperate french style drain. A properly sized and set up single resin tank softener should regenerate every 7 or 8 days. If your softener is regenerating more often then it is undersized and wasting salt and water.
Twin resin tank softeners may regenerate more often
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com says...

Is there any damage to a submersible sump pump?
Banty
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It worked fine for me. I ran the discharge line from my softener to the sump pump, which in turn discharged to a low spot in the yard. I planted water-loving plants back there (cattails and poplars) and they thrived. I believe that since the softener exchanges ions, if it is adjusted correctly, what it discharges should not contain much NaCl, although it does contain other salts. -- H
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

I have a friend who did that and regrets it. The brine quickly plugged up his dry well.
-- "Tell me what I should do, Annie." "Stay. Here. Forever." - Life On Mars
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French drain (dry well) is required here and mine has been working perfectly for 12 years. Guess we're just lucky here and everywhere else it is required.
Perhaps your friend's softener is not set up as efficently as possible and using more salt than necessary. Your friend's softener may be undersized and regenerating more often than necessary, which is (unfortunately) far too common, which would increase the softener effluent dramatically.
Either way, the softener effluent needs to go somewhere... either the septic (or sewer) or on the ground or in the ground. I guess one could recover it and take it to a hazmat disposal site :)
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On Sep 4, 11:26 am, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

More likely is the fact that there are many things in water that will clog up a dry well than 'salt'.
Also, some of the 'salt' is used by the softener rather than going out the drain line; specifically part of the sodium or potassium.
.. "...using more salt than necessary...undersized and regenerating more often than necessary"... "which would increase the softener effluent dramatically". There are serious contradictions in those comments. Steve, you need to learn more about the set up and sizing of softeners and how that all impacts on regeneration schedules, water volume used/per regeneration and salt efficiency.
Gary Slusser Quality Water Associates
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A French drain doesn't necessarily run to a dry well.
Actually, I have a separate, non perforated, line for my sump pump to a low point in the back of my property (woods).
Banty
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Banty,
That's one solution but I think it is illegal in some localities, mainly California IIRC. You can't run effluent water to ground surface. Califronia even has limits on the amount of effluent and the salt efficency a softener must perform at in order to be permitted.
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On Sep 4, 2:08 pm, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

I've never heard of any limit on the amount of discharge in CA or anywhere else, can you directs us to your source for that information?
Gary Slusser Quality Water Associates
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