Separate ground wire to panel to ground outlets?

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*The Amprobe Inspector does not have a specific display that says that ther e is an arc fault condition. However, after using it for a while and takin g before and after readings I realized that it does identify the conditions that could lead to an arc fault. This is not an idiot proof tool. I had trouble understanding the readings initially until I did a lot of testing a nd noticed the differences from outlet to outlet and circuit to circuit. F or a DIYer I would suggest that they spend the time and money to redo all o f the connections on their outlets and switches instead of buying an expens ive tool. Arcing is a result of loose connections and the load passing thr ough them.
Thank you for the praise Bobby,
John G

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OK. I give up. Where's the beef?
(-:
--
Bobby G.

< snipped-for-privacy@aol.com> wrote in message
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We have another winner but I'm afraid JG clocked in first with the answer so he gets the valuable prize of one "Attaboy, new in box." (-;

I sure was stumped but my neighbor's son nailed it as soon as I said that only one of my UPSs starting beeping at 3AM.
--
Bobby G.



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<My guess too... can be verified easily if you have a 240VAC receptacle anywhere to probe (in garage for welder, or laundry room for clothes dryer) one leg will still be hot but the other will be dead if he is correct. Or just take cover off breaker panel and measure two breakers adjacent to each other, they should be on opposite legs.>
A third runner up. I would have done as you suggested except by the next day it was mysteriously fixed. It really threw me because in all three houses affected, it cured itself. That's pretty rare to lose some outlets in the middle of the night and have them magically come back to life the next day.
I am wondering if I could have detected it with my HomeVision X-10 controller and XTB coupler/repeater just from the PC interface. The coupler/repeater should behave erratically if it's not getting power from both phases, but I am not sure. I suppose I should send an email to Jeff Volp who designed it to find out whether it would detect such a condition or only if the phase providing power to the unit fails.
--
Bobby G.



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<stuff snipped>

I was referring to the guy (OP - original poster TomR) who started the thread asking about how to turn a two pronged outlet into a grounded one. I think he did exactly the right thing - had a new cable with ground run.
I agree, in the 70's you were not likely to run into the problems you might today tying into a clamp-on-pipe ground connection.

I ran along every inch of the water pipe and removed and rewired the surprising number of grounding clamps that were sitting on the pipes. CATV, phone, upgrading outlets, etc. after I tore the entire ceiling down. Virtually every clamp connector showed some sort of corrosion or physical damage to the (very old) copper pipe.
--
Bobby G.





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<stuff snipped>

I'd

would

I'd at least try to do it that way, too, especially since the work was done before the ceiling (as Clare noted) improperly concealed it. This was an amateur who was obviously afraid to go into the circuit panel and attach the ground wire to a real ground. Maybe I should be thankful for that, overall. (-:
--
Bobby G.

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arrived for thanksgiving dinner at my brother in laws He had installed ome plywood flooring in the attic and accidently put a screw thru the wiring, t ripping the breaker that lit up most of the key areas:( His wife was very u pset:( I arrived as my father in law had just completed splicing the bad ro mex, only to find tht didnt get the lights back on..... So I started asking questions. Found it was a X 10 setup, the short must of taken out the wall controller..
Well being thanksgiving no stores were open.
The family had NO idea what X 10 did. but reported a light would come on at 4am occasionally so brother in law replaced to switch. he till had the one he replaced with a regular switch, so I swapped out the bad one , reprogra mmed it, and was the hero of the day. We had light to eat by:)
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On 10/13/2014 10:10 AM, bob haller wrote:

Amazing how anyone with a few mechanical skills can be a hero. Right place, right time. You probably saved them some big bucks over an electrician.
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On 10/13/2014 11:26 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

The regular switch didn't operate X10?
. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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Thanks everyone. As I mentioned previously, I did read all of the replies and passed on the info that I learned etc.
But, I decided to come back to this and post an additional message because I just got done doing work on a house that I "indirectly" own and which has mostly all 2-prong outlets where the "Existing wiring is in very good shape" as in the original question. I discovered that it has metal outlet boxes and all of the 2-prong receptacles are in metal boxes that are grounded with a thin ground wire that runs inside the same sheathed wire that contains the black and white wires. So, I was able to switch out some of the 2-prong receptacles and replace them with regular 3-prong receptacles that are grounded to the metal outlet box.
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On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 6:44:06 PM UTC-4, TomR wrote:






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When you say "sheathed wire" you are referring to type AC aka "BX" correct? Just wanted to make sure. If so, everything is fine and what you've done is perfectly OK. In fact, this is a situation where buying "spec grade" r eceptacles with the little self-grounding clip can save you a lot of work; then you don't have to make up/buy pigtails or drill/tap your boxes for gro und screws.
nate
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On Friday, October 24, 2014 8:18:30 AM UTC-4, N8N wrote:

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t? Just wanted to make sure. If so, everything is fine and what you've do ne is perfectly OK. In fact, this is a situation where buying "spec grade" receptacles with the little self-grounding clip can save you a lot of work ; then you don't have to make up/buy pigtails or drill/tap your boxes for g round screws.

I'm taking bets it's not BX, AC. Sounds like non-metallic to me.
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Did you check what the other end of the thin bare wire was connected to (to dangle a preposition)?
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On 10/22/2014 11:46 PM, snipped-for-privacy@sbcglobal.net wrote:

At least a dangling preposition you won't be shocking with.
- . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 11:46:46 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@sbcglobal.net wrote:

And what size that "thin" wire actually is? I think by code it has to be the same size as the branch circuit conductor, but not sure on that. Meaning you can't use a thin wire.
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In my case, the old style "Romex" is 14 gauge wire with a 16 gauge ground wire. And, in an earlier post about this old style of wiring gfretwell wrote,
"As another poster said, you really need to verify that there is not a ground in the existing cable. There was a period of time in the 60s when you were required to ground the boxes but you didn't need 3 prong outlets. The grounded Romex was available in the 50s. The house I grew up in, built in 53, had 2 prong outlets and 3 wire Romex. We retrofitted the 3 prong outlets, pigtailing from the box. These days it is much easier with self grounding receptacle.",
and he also wrote,
"[One] ... could easily make the case that the 16ga ground wire in old Romex is not up to current code (true) but it is plenty to operate the over current device in a fault."
I decided to just go with those thoughts in mind and just converted some of the 2-prong receptacles to self-grounding 3-prong receptacles attached to the grounded metal outlet boxes.
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On Thursday, October 23, 2014 10:18:27 PM UTC-4, TomR wrote:

I would agree that from a practical standpoint and given the situation, 16 gauge is OK. But I wouldn't exactly call 16 gauge "thin" either. It's only one gauge smaller than the conductor.
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On Thursday, October 23, 2014 7:36:10 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
rote:

(to dangle a preposition)?

In a AC (BX) cable there's a thin metal strip that runs inside the armor so provide a grounding path. it isn't anywhere near as large as the current carrying conductors, its primary purpose is to bond together the armor to p revent a condition where if it's flexed enough the current isn't taking a s piral path.
Now current production AC will have a separate ground wire within it, altho ugh as far as I know using grounding type receptacles on old AC is still co mpletely acceptable.
nate
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I assume that this was in reply to my post which said, that I
".....just got done doing work on a house that I "indirectly" own and which has mostly all 2-prong outlets where the "Existing wiring is in very good shape" as in the original question. I discovered that it has metal outlet boxes and all of the 2-prong receptacles are in metal boxes that are grounded with a thin ground wire that runs inside the same sheathed wire that contains the black and white wires. So, I was able to switch out some of the 2-prong receptacles and replace them with regular 3-prong receptacles that are grounded to the metal outlet box."
And, yes, the other end of the thing bare wire for each circuit was attached to the ground bar in the main panel.
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In

Correct. Definitely not BX. It is NM (non-metallic) wire that looks like Romex, but the sheathing appears to be a gray cloth-like material. Maybe that was the original version of Romex brand wire, but I am not sure. It looks like the middle gray wire in this photo:
http://www.nachi.org/forum/attachments/f19/63529d1364291657-braided-romex-cloth-wiring-img_5281.jpg
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