Roundup Deemed Dangerous/ Poison Ivy Revisited

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Basically, yeah. That's it. I have this occasional fantasy about oncologists who are heading toward becoming alcoholics after seeing so many kids with cancer, and what kind of study those guys would set up if they received a huge anonymous donation earmarked for proper research methods.
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That's what peer review is for.
Bob
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

I trust reputable agencies. Things like greenpeace, ARA etc. are far from reputable. As for the current issue (Roundup) - that product doesn't and didn't need any hype from the company. It would have poured off the shelves just like it did even if there had been very restrictive use requirements. It was a product that farmers, stockmen, etc. had been praying for since chemicals first came into use.
If you think that Monsanto downplays the dangers of chemicals, just read the application books that come with each package thereof.
In the OP, there were outright lies and distortions in the first few lines of text and it didn't improve from there.
Harry K
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

Monsanto
Harry K
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Monsanto is not an agency, but that response is an interesting clue to how you view these things. How about the second question? When sources are cited, how do you decide which ones you trust?
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

Okay, if you say so. If you want a real agency EPA. I think that is the agency that approves all MSDSs.
What sources do I trust and how do I decide? It is more a question of deciding which ones I don't trust. That includes any source orginating from places associated with AR, Greenpiece, ELF, Vegetarians. That last one is sorta open as Vegetarians run the gamet from sane to kook - most of the vegetarians in these forums are on the kook end of the scale.
An additional criteria is 'what are they saying?' If it doesn't pass the smell test (the OPs doesn't) I don't trust it.
Harry K
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Okay, if you say so. If you want a real agency EPA. I think that is the agency that approves all MSDSs.
What sources do I trust and how do I decide? It is more a question of deciding which ones I don't trust. That includes any source orginating from places associated with AR, Greenpiece, ELF, Vegetarians. That last one is sorta open as Vegetarians run the gamet from sane to kook - most of the vegetarians in these forums are on the kook end of the scale.
An additional criteria is 'what are they saying?' If it doesn't pass the smell test (the OPs doesn't) I don't trust it.
Harry K
=================================== EPA - that's a funny one, Harry. Like the FDA, lots of conflicts of interest there.
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The one that authored the report I quoted the abstract from does quite well.
Hint: it wasn't Monsanto.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
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When Harry K used the term "agency", I interpreted that to mean a government agency. You mentioned a college which, unless I'm reading it wrong, did NOT do the research itself. You posted an article by someone who offered opinions on OTHER peoples' research.
Doesn't matter, though. After you posted that information, I asked you a question which you didn't respond to, unless you also post under the name of "yourname". Until you answer the earlier question, we can't continue.
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Why?
Not a "someone". Several.
So? Reviews of studies are just as valid. That particular agency isn't exactly your typical "college" churning out just philosophy majors either.
How about WHO then?
How about just about all of the other studies on TOXNET (NIH) that a search for "roundup toxicity" yield?
Some of those studies look a bit scary. But look closer - they're talking about _extremely_ high dosage levels.
I don't know about you, but I think I'd notice drinking the LD50 dose of Roundup - which is about a pound of the _pure_ stuff.

What question was that?
That loaded question about "why it can't be believed?", which either turns into a diatribe about trusting Monsanto (which I'm not), or some nonsense about animal tests are always totally irrelevant?
Whereas in fact, animal studies almost always reflect how we react to things, and where they don't, they discover that, because they test it on more than one kind of animal.
Let's on the other hand, talk about Greenpeace asserting that Roundup is "one of the most toxic herbicides", without a slightest shred of evidence, no citations, _nothing_.
Now compare the LD50 dose of Roundup (which is on the order of one _pound_ for a normal size man) with that of caffeine, paraquat, or that matter, table salt.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
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I believe this came up because the DEA was spraying large parts of the Andes undiscriminately in an effort to kill coca plants and in the concentrations they were spraying it was actually killing off large populations of native plants and animals. There was also a similar issue with people using this to prepare recently burned "rain forest" land for agriculture (like the Brazil "ethanol" farms) This really does not apply much to the amounts a typical homeowner would be spraying.At the price they charge here nobody is going to be using a whole lot of it. Like all chemicals, the danger really starts when you stop following the directions.
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Was that roundup or was that paraquat?
Paraquat is quite toxic, no question about _that_.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
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On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 18:26:36 -0000, snipped-for-privacy@nortelnetworks.com (Chris Lewis) wrote:

Paraquat was used on pot plants. Different deal. This was after that debacle.
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(Chris

Whatever we hosed down Colombian villages with, it doused humans and their food crops.
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wrote:

As I remember it, paraquat was not so much a defoliant as it was something that would make you sick to your stomach if you smoked pot that had been sprayed with it.
CWM
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Paraquat is a defoliant. Making the people sick who smoked the stuff harvested before Paraquat finished killing it was considered an added bonus.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
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Why would you consider that to be a bonus?
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On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 21:01:34 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"

It certainly shut down the Colmbian pot business but it was replaced by cocaine and with the sudden glut of coke on the market, crack. It also boosted the popularity of US grown pot, a market that still goes on today. The unintended consequences may have outweighed any perceived benefit but why is that a shock with a government program?.
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I don't: "was considered an...". I was sarcastically referring to the DEA and the government policies that allowed them to do it.
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