Rough estimate

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I've one estimate (too high)done. I have a roof on a house 22' by 24' that is low (4ft at peak). I want it ripped off and put a gambrel style to utilize the upstairs space. That involves removing and disposing the old roof. Laying down a sub floor, erecting rafters, sheathing and shingling. Does NOT include siding, windows or any inside work, I will finish it myself. I thought $17,000 was too much considering I can have a brand new 2 car garage on a slab built including siding and doors for $6900 in this area. Anybody have a similar job done? How much?
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LSMFT

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Can't tell if it's high - where are you?
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h wrote:

Not to mention there's no mention made of whether there's adequate foundation and other structural for adding the second floor loads, etc. Who's doing that? The existing ceiling rafters won't support a load-bearing floor so it's floor joists before subfloor and, as noted, something to hang/set them from/on...
At $30-something/sq-ft doesn't sound out of line; no...
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dpb wrote:

I'll second that- unless you already have 2x8 joists on the correct centers in the 1st floor ceiling (unlikely with an attic that shallow), this is more like adding a 2nd floor than replacing the roof system. First floor structure and foundations will need to be taken into consideration in any case, especially if this new attic is to be rated as living space. If you really want to pursue this, you need a site survey by a qualified architect or engineer. You can save some bucks if you can come up with a set of 'as built' blueprints for the place. A professional opinion will likely be required before they let you pull the permits.
If you have room on the lot, I'd compare the costs with doing a 1st floor bumpout or ell. Engineering is simpler, and disturbance to existing footprint is likely to be a lot less. And it won't fry the head of the folks in the inspector's office.
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aemeijers wrote:

This house was built in the 1940's. It has 2 x 6 joists in the first floor ceiling, same as the 2 x 6 joists in the floor.

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LSMFT

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2x6 don't span a whole lot. Not by todays standards anyway. They on 16"? Might be good enough to put a floor directly on. I'm guessing since it's a small house and the proposed 2nd story floor space is in the center that there will be some potential load bearing walls under it. What's in the basement, posts? A 2x4 interior wall can carry a fair load but it will need support under it in the basement. If it's stick built the load will have to transfer through interior walls as well as exterior. A manufactured truss can transfer more of the load to the exterior walls. Still, tear off the old, dispose of it, build the new and roof it, $17k doesn't seem so bad. Get a couple more and that'll tell you. I'd also want to ask for some details on how they plan to do it.
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jamesgangnc wrote:

Yes, it has a 6 x 6 beam across the center of the basement with steel posts on concrete pads. That should hold thing up don't you think?
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The other thing to look for is how far some of the interior walls that might become load bearing are from the 6x6 beam. You need them to be pretty close otherwise you are transfering load via the floor joists of the 1st floor. They will deflect. Image lines through the existing structure going up from the basement support to your new 2nd story floor. You don't want a lot of horizontal travel via the 1st story floor. If the basement is unfinished you can also place additional steel posts under the interior walls that will become load bearing if needed. From what you have said it does sound like your plan is doable. The contractor you pick should be thinking about all these things and should look in your basement and ground floor to confirm how he plans to support the new floor. Ask him questions, he shouldn't mind explaining his plans to you.
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LSMFT wrote: ...

Maybe, maybe not...that's what you need an engineering evaluation for.
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While there's not a downside to having an engineer involved, except cost, I'm think a good general contractor could also evaluate this and come up with an acceptable solution. Since the op is already concerned about costs adding a grand or 2 to have an engineer calculate loads is probably not his prefered path. Just saying.
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jamesgangnc wrote:

Can't see from here...
I'm not tellin' anybody to add a second story on existing foundation, etc., w/o having such "minor details" verified...
Permitting will probably require it anyway. Just sayin'...
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Agreed. We'll be doing the same thing in the fall, and our contractor scoped out the foundation before he gave us the quote. Not only will new joists be required for the new second floor, he's got additional structural supports going into the basement. We've had the plans drawn up and some architectural drawings done, so the inspector will "get it". Our tiny town has an ancient building inspector, and if he can't see it like a photograph from every angle, inside and out, he won't approve it even if you have detailed blueprints. We learned that from past experience. We wanted to build a pre-fab garage, and he wouldn't approve it until he saw a "picture or drawing of the finished garage, on your lot." Huh? How do you take a picture of something that doesn't exist yet? Answer? Photoshop is your friend. So...we have our drawings so he'll approve the new permit. He never even looks at the blueprints! I love living in the boonies, but small town gubmint is tricky.
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I'm not suggesting that this forum is the go/no go authority on this. I just suggesting that a competent general contractor should be able to figure out how to support this without requiring an engineered design.
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jamesgangnc wrote:

And probably most places by now need "sealed plans" (blueprints with the seal of a registered architect) to get a building permit. Although there are still some place like here, no plans needed, no blueprints needed. Pretty much the rule here is to build it on your land and don't cross the property line. That's about it. Only thing they inspect are sewage and electric. For real.
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jamesgangnc wrote: ...

And I'm saying there's more to being sure of adequacy of the modified overall structure than simply deciding how to hang a set of upper floor joists and OP's clearly trying to "cheap out" and hope for the best.
We have absolutely no way of knowing what the foundation is, what the columns in the basement are resting upon, what the tie collars are like if they exist, etc., etc., etc.
Yes, a "competent general contractor" can tell some of this but may (or may not) have the expertise to evaluate the effect of the proposed modifications on the overall structure.
I've seen enough build perfectly adequate new structure on inadequate existing that I'd not be willing to make that as a recommendation to OP. There was, in fact, published in FHB a year or so ago a similar modification to an existing house done by a contractor. I noticed some weaknesses in what was done that are very common but the "obvious" way to make the additions/modifications at relatively minimal cost and requiring minimal modification to the existing structure. Interestingly, an issue or two later were two letters from licensed structural engineers pointing out the structural weaknesses inherent in the modification as implemented. I can foresee such issues in OP's desired plan of action. Granted, it ain't foregone that it will but it surely isn't wise to leap w/o adequate design.
And, as noted, if there is a permit required in OP's jurisdiction, it may not be adequate to try that route, anyway.
I'm simply trying to make sure to avoid the potential train wreck...
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dpb wrote: ...

And by that I mean the existing may have been perfectly adequate until the new was added for which the combination was then _not_.
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Sure, I'm just saying that a good contractor should be able to handle this. It does not absolutely require an engineer. It's just a 22' by 24' structure. I would expect the contractor to be able to articulate how he planned to carry the load down to the foundation.
You guys sure are doom and gloom a lot, sheesh.
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jamesgangnc wrote:

A) Is nothing to add over what you said before and I'll reiterate the observation the good contractor can do the building, sure...whether the good contractor is also able to determine the ability of the existing building may begin to stretch his ability to take standard framing practice and apply it.
B) _THAT'S_ not the question...do you know there's enough foundation for essentially doubling the house? Are you confident enough that any good general contractor is sufficiently trained to risk your $20k+ on his look-see?

No, realistic.
I'm saying prudence is generally a wise investment...and certainly anybody that would ask for opinions of such a move on usenet needs some imo (altho I'll note OP only asked about costs, but that's generally also a bad sign for getting the truly "good general contractor" when start going for lowest cost.
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dpb wrote:

And, my last comment I'll make--I wouldn't expect it to be but a few hundred bucks for an opinion on feasibility and suggestions for incorporation assuming the project conception is, indeed, a reasonable one for the structure.
I'd think that quite a reasonable investment either way before making a major commitment.
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You think you are going to get an engineer out to look at a site and evaluate a design for a couple hundred bucks?
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