Your problem is that you watch infomercials. If you didn't watch them
(and don't tell me that you didn't know at the time that they were lying
to you!) you wouldn't have unreasonable expectations of what products
It depends on what quality of drill bits you buy, doesn't it? If you
buy your bits at $29/set, then it doesn't make sense to spend $100 on a
Drill Doctor - but surely you could figure that out for yourself. On
the other hand, if you regularly buy expensive drill bits, it might be
Also, there's the time aspect. If I dull or damage a drill, it takes
far less time to resharpen it in an in-house DD than it does to drive to
the nearest store where I can buy a new drill. That's worth something.
Um, have you tried it? I have. The diamond wheel in the DD removed
carbide from the bit astonishingly fast, given the light pressure and
momentary contact that I used. A green wheel is silicon carbide, which
is nowhere close to diamond in hardness. (And I have used a green wheel
to sharpen carbide lathe tools).
You mean that the infomercials are a hustle. Don't watch them. Feel
better now? Actually just turn off the TV entirely, you'll feel better
My own impression of the DD is that it provides a pretty decent
sharpening job with minimal skill. The 180 grit wheel is somewhat
coarse compared to whatever does the final grinding on new bits. I
could *probably* do better with lots of practice, but the DD means I
don't need to spend that time practicing just to make a dull bit usable
I don't just watch them....
I STUDY them and take notes. No foolin...
And no, there are unreasonable expectations.
I just hate lying em effers, is all.
Yeah, but mebbe YOU figgered out that the infomercials are in fact directed
at people who are precisely NOT paying $100 for 29 drills. Not too many
home-moaners req. parabolic cobalt/carbide.
Altho I'm sure the informercial is being produced to convince them that they
DO need parabolic carbide, w/ a coolant hole.
I'll bet I can sharpen a drill by hand far more quickly than you can find,
plug in, set up yer DD.
And bleeve me, ahm no 'spert.
Mebbe not perfectly symmetrically, but more than adequately.
It takes very little change in drill geometry to make it dull. Therefore,
it often takes but a touch to make is sharp again.
Not to mention being able to put different angles/tips on the drill, as
Here's the deal:
In previous threads, the consensus was, among experienced machinists, is
that for critical work *neither* hand sharpening nor DD are as accurate as a
But, *home-moaners* will NEVER require that level of accuracy.
So, the DD fills a kind of void that, well, doesn't really need to be
Oh, oh, except that void CREATED by hustling a Drill Doctor instead of
TEACHING people a simple shop technique.
Now, I'm sure there are some scenarios where a DD is in fact useful.
But that's not the point.
The point is, The Hustle.
AND, the ultimate disservice done when *education* is denied, in favor of,
well, The Hustle.
I stand corrected.
I'll have to fire up my Baldor w/ diamond wheels (sitting there for a year
now), see how it does on masonry bits.
You actually have a good point here.
I feel like a heroin addict shooting up *very* bad heroin.
A very important point you raise.
Changing the channel is not a real solution, when so many others are
Simply changing the channel, without attempting to do something about it is,
in principle, irresponsible.
But from a practical pov, probably little other option.
But simply "changing the channel" is what is allowing Congress to rape every
man, woman, and child in this country.
And sit is Session to chortle about it.
Your earlier "advice" was actually better: throw out the TV.
Ergo, see my sig.
Mr. P.V.\'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY
Maybe you can. But I can find and "set up" (i.e. place it on a table
somewhere) my DD in less time than I can get my bench grinder set up
and ready to use. Right now, the grinder is sitting behind a
Because the DD uses a chuck to hold the drill and cams to control its
motion, it seems pretty good at getting both cutting edges the same
length and the same angle. It seems less good at getting the same
cutting geometry on all sizes of drills - the smallest sizes go a bit
weird. This is with the 350X, the cheapest current model, which uses a
chuck that's effectively a pair of V-blocks and has built-in fingers on
the jaws to set the rotational position of the drill. The more
expensive models use 6-jaw chucks to hold the drill and an entirely
different alignment method, so they may work better.
Selling stuff to people who are too lazy to learn a technique that
requires more skill is a time-honoured way to make money. I don't have
a problem with that if the machine actually works. The DD does work
well enough that I think it's useful.
Now, maybe I'm just too lazy to spend the time needed to become
reasonably competent at sharpening a drill. But I do have a bench
grinder, and I do have the tools needed to true the wheel, so I'll
believe that I could do it eventually. Lots of people don't even own a
bench grinder, or they do but the wheels are far from having a flat
cutting face. They are considerably further from being able to do their
own freehand drill sharpening.
I'm pretty unimpressed with TV these days. I've probably watched less
than 5 hours of TV in the past year.
Well, ito of priorities, make it clear to the Wife that the Shop comes
before the Kitchen.... :)
Well, mebbe iffin yer really picky.... :)
Five-oh is about the right age to be totally disgusted with effing TV.
I think, tho, I'm going to have to be sent to rehab--LawnOrder, UFC,
And now that Dennis Farina is on LawnOrder, after rehab I'll probably need a
lifetime of Methadone.
I think that Wen ditty was discussed on rcm briefly. I think the Sears is a
If I had a whole tray of bits that needed sharpening, and I was doing only
118 o, I would consider a DD as a shop tool.
But usually I sharpen on the fly, so it is not yet an issue.
And since you are essentially correct, that the avg person is not going to
learn how to sharpen drills by hand, Voila, the DD becomes a commercially
I would only add to that the "system" is set up to *make sure* that the avg
person does not *want* to learn how to sharpen bits themselves--or, to do
anything else themselves, really.
Home Depot and HGTV notwithstanding--both of which masterfully perpetuate a
I still remember some artsy-craftsy pixie on HGTV, whippin out dat MIG
welder, like it was nuthin.... Please....
Mr. P.V.\'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY
I think I've hung a few more sheets than you, Lloyd, and probably been on
quite a few more construction sites. I still have the Porter Cable router
that was used for sheetrock before the Roto-Zip came out.
WHO's a "clueless newbie"?
And where the hell does someone automatically get the information about how
many boards of rock I've hung in my life?
I'm "competent" in all the basic construction trades, sir. Did it for over
ten years before I realized that brain-sweat was a more effective lubricant
for my money machine than pit-sweat.
You've apparently attributed someone else's post to me. I said the rotozip
style of hand router was a _good_ thing for drywalling. It's easy, quick,
does just what it was made for, and in the basic version, it's inexpensive.
How is that "clueless"? Or is that just your description of anyone who
disagrees with you?
It was, in fact, ATP who stated he was a dry-waller, and that the
contractors he knows still use the keyhole saw.
And he wasn't condemning the rotozip per se, just providing some
Something Steve B seems to have problems with.
I do have a Q, tho:
When you use the rotozip against an outlet box, doesn't the *tip* of the
cutter then need a bearing of sorts, to not scar the box up?
The tips I have will actually have the flutes on the side of the box.
Or mebbe scarring the box up is not such an issue.
I used it already, to cannibalize the1,824 cu in into a real tool case, by
cutting out the guts.
What a pita, but in fact the rotozip was, poetically in this case, the right
tool for the job!
Hard to control freehand, tho.
I think you made the observation that the 'zip shoves the dust inside.
Indeed, the long-helix cutter that came with it is a left-handed spiral, so
much of the dust does in fact go inside.
I don't know that I'll ever use it again, drywall notwithstanding.
It does, however, nicely fill the gap between a dremel and die grinder,
size-wise, so I can see using it for some grinding--5 A motor, iirc.
Mine has the two-speed switch, which is an interesting safety design--not
all that ergonometric, but a decent design from a safety pov--smack it down,
Hey, but how bout a trigger on a handle.... That's a novel idea.....
You can put this on a Variac or other single phase speed controller for more
Dremel-like rpm control.
Still, I object to it's misrepresentation, which is what my OP was all
May have overstated a few things, but shit, heat of battle, donchaknow....
Mr. P.V.\'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY
The bits come in a number of styles, one of which is a "safe tip"... it has
an unfluted bearing portion about 3/8" long at the tip... it'll sort of burn
a plastic box but not badly, skids nice on phenolic and metal, and doesn't
cut any flying wires inside the box (so long as you have your depth set
I am not a drywaller. I have, however, installed quite a bit of rock over a
35 year period, and used a PC drywall router with the drywall bit. It has
some advantages but is far from being universally adopted. It is mostly
homeowners who can't do the smallest job without bringing out all of their
"labor saving" tools. Meanwhile, a skilled guy with some hand tools would
already be halfway done.
I'm jumping on the popular bandwagon here, PV.
Yes, it's a cheaply-made tool. But it has a definite purpose.
Welll....... yeah.... all those silly attachments work just as well/poorly
as one might suppose. But in its native mode - drywall trimming - the tool
just makes one marvel that it hadn't been done before.
Don't bitch out those folks until you've rocked a whole house, and not had
to measure-cut-measure-curse all the openings.
I can _find_, jump, and zip a receptacle hole with a roto-zip faster than
you can draw it out on the rock with a pencil. It cuts circles fast, clean,
and precisely. The clearance around the box is just what you need for a
clean fit and finish. The whole idea was well thought-out, even if the tool
is made to Sears quality.
On my remod-job, I figured I've saved fifteen/twenty hours of fiddle-fuss by
buying the "basic" RZ kit for $69.00.
Got that right. My rotozip was cheap at the price for chopping out
holes for the light cans, cut the rocking time massively wherever it was
usable. But they're more or less useless for anything other than
drywall, rpm too high and bits too soft- I'd say keep the rotozip and a
bag of drywall bits & throw out the rest, and by all means stick it in a
shoebox. After a couple renovation jobs the shoebox will start falling
apart, so maybe duct-tape the corners now to save time...
Or you could buy just the RZ bits and a $20 Harbor Freight trim router,and
get 1/4" router bits to do whatever other jobs you have. IIRC,the HF trim
router comes with 1/8" and 1/4" collets.
I've heard that drywall dust trashes the Dremel's bearings quickly.
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