Roofs

I am having my roof redone. Believing in "trust but verify", what are some of the things I should be looking while they are here and for awhile after they have left to make sure the job is being done properly.
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What kind of roofing material on what kind of roof?
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Poor chimney flashing is common, not using good material or cutting it into the mortar. Pull a permit, then you get a free inspection and dont pay till its inspected. Unless you know roofs, get someone that does.
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On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:34:50 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (m Ransley) wrote:
:Poor chimney flashing is common, not using good material or cutting it :into the mortar. Pull a permit, then you get a free inspection and dont :pay till its inspected. Unless you know roofs, get someone that does.
If your town is like mine, the "free inspection" won't be worth a goddamn. The local municipal inspector didn't want to get up on my roof. Too steep for them. I myself have been on my roof well over 100 times. The people who reroofed my house thought nothing of climbing all over it.
I tried to get a 3rd party to inspect my roof after the job, but it was a waste of time. The simple fact is you better educate yourself on how it's done right and inspect it yourself. To find that out get a lot of estimates and ASK QUESTIONS. It's probably worth your while to get a good book first.
My advice to you is to get recommendations. If you are in the least bit uncertain, talk to people who have recently used the roofer you choose. Prices vary widely, and don't necessarily reflect the quality of the job you will get.
I also heartily recommend you not hire a company that has several crews. I would say one or two crews, maximum. If they have 12 crews like the company that did my roof, there's no way in the world they will have enough supervision to make sure some of the guys aren't cutting corners.
Dan
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"MDT at Paragon Home Inspections, LLC"

Dimensional shingles on a home's roof. Do you need more information? If so, what?
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Kurt Ullman wrote:

I just had a new roof put on. I wanted dimensional shingles but the roofer ruled them out because he said my roof did not have a steep enough pitch which could result in water damage eventually. Apparently water won't drain off the roof well enough with dimensional without a steeper pitch. He said lots of companies will use dimensional if customers ask for them even if their roofs lack the necessary pitch, but he won't. So you may want to look into that.
If you're in a hurricane affected area, as I am, where roofers are very nearly overwhelmed with business, you may also want to pay close attention to each step of the job they do because they are having a hard time keeping laborers and many of the workers lack experience. Also, the guys that did mine failed to replace some rotted fascia even though the contract specified an amount that would have allowed for it. When they came back to check it, the first piece they checked broke off in the guys hand, so they went ahead and did that whole side of the house. They had to pry up the new drip edge they'd installed, then reinstalled that same stuff, which they had to come back, again, to replace. So they're really trying to cut costs because the cost of materials are rising. There's more, but I won't bore you with any more details. Just keep an eye on things.
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This is a redo and we are replacing dimensional with dimensional. After 20 years, I think I would have noted any problems like that (g). BTW: Being replaces because of hail damage.
Thanks for the reply.
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Kurt Ullman wrote:

Get details of how and where they'll use drip edge and flashing.
Make sure they are 'certified' installers for the brand roofing they want to use.
Make sure they follow that manufacturers guidelines- download the instructions for that partic. type roofing (brand and make/model) so you are familiar with how it should 'look' when installed properly.
Make sure you get a wind warranty that matches your area.
If your roof needs ventilation improvements, make sure they do this (not for free, but if it needs doing, pay 'em to do it).
If you have any current problems, make sure they know in advance.
Dave
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Kurt, get a GAF factory certified roofer and have them put it on they have an excellent warrantee program. Muff

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Kurt Ullman wrote:

All this has been said before. Before the work is done: Check recent clients for satisfaction. Have a written contract. Include unit prices for replacing sheathing & fascia. Include specifications for replacement deck, roofing felt, shingles, drip edge=s, and flashing. Include - as noted by others - quality of flashing installation. Include standards for clean-up both daily and at job end. Include remediation for damaged shrubs and lawn.
When the job begins, keep a wrapper from the various materials and any instructions that might be included. Check the manufacturer's web site for installation instructions. Don't allow installation over a wet deck. TB
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snipped-for-privacy@bellsouth.net wrote:

What he said, and I'll repeat.......cleanup. Nails can reak havoc on lawn mower and vehicle tires. Make sure they run a magnetic sweep over the areas around your house each day and it wouldn't hurt to buy a magentic sweep for yourself. The $20 you spend on it will be worth it before you replace or repair a $100 tire on your vehilce. Besides they are a handy tool to have around. Tarps don't catch everything.
Main thing to remember is YOU are the SUPERVISOR. If you don't like it, don't be afarid to tell them to redo it. As I tell my customers, I'm going home at the end of the day, if there is something about the job you don't like, let me know and I'll fix it.Most reputable contractors feel the same way, but we aren't mind readers. Most aren't afraid of questions and don't get hurt feelings if you question what they are doing and why they are doing it a certain way. If they do get hurt feelings about it, it might be a sign they are covering up shoddy work and don't like the fact you called them on it. I recommend you supervise regularly and have contractor give you progress reports regularly.
Your local home improvement stores can serve as good information spots for who to and not to hire for jobs. They see these contractors on a daily basis and they hear all the gossip about who can and cannot do the job right.
Good Luck, JD
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:Main thing to remember is YOU are the SUPERVISOR. If you don't like it, :don't be afarid to tell them to redo it.
One portion of my roof was 3/12, meaning 3 feet of rise per 12 feet of run. The shingle install instructions stated that this required double underlayment, and I pointed this out to the project manager. He insisted firstly that it was 4/12, which was the minimal slope for single underlayment. I insisted it was indeed 3/12 and made him get his measuring instrument from his truck and he confirmed that I was right. He said he still wouldn't fix this, that it wasn't necessary, but later in the day he called to say he was sending a couple of guys out next day (a Saturday) to remove the shingles and underlayment on that portion of the roof and reinstall with double underlayment.
Getting this guy to fix all the exposed nails was a big big hassle, and I was the guy who had to find them all. All in all it took around a month to get them to fix the problems, and there may well be others that I wasn't able to spot. I couldn't find someone to give me an impartial and professional inspection, and I really did try.
I went with this company because they seemed to have the best ideas for repairing certain problems I had. Also, their quote was relatively reasonable. Another factor was that winter was bearing down on me and I had to make a decision quickly. It would have been better if I'd gotten all over the situation a couple of months earlier.
It might be OK, but I'm not sure.
Good luck!
Dan
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On 11 Jul 2006 14:58:18 -0700, " snipped-for-privacy@bellsouth.net"
: :Kurt Ullman wrote: :> I am having my roof redone. Believing in "trust but verify", what are :> some of the things I should be looking while they are here and for :> awhile after they have left to make sure the job is being done properly. : :All this has been said before. :Before the work is done: :Check recent clients for satisfaction. :Have a written contract. :Include unit prices for replacing sheathing & fascia. :Include specifications for replacement deck, roofing felt, shingles, :drip edge=s, and flashing. :Include - as noted by others - quality of flashing installation. :Include standards for clean-up both daily and at job end. :Include remediation for damaged shrubs and lawn. : :When the job begins, keep a wrapper from the various materials and any :instructions that might be included. Check the manufacturer's web site :for installation instructions. :Don't allow installation over a wet deck. :TB
You might want to ask them for some extra shingles - 3 packages is what I got, in case at some future time I need to make changes on the roof, install a vent, remove one, replace shingles, etc. That way you will have the instructions right on the package. As stated, instructions for installation should be at the shingle manufacturer's website as well.
Read the contract before you sign, and have them make any additions or explanations that you need.
Get at least 3 estimates (and contracts) before you choose anyone. I'd get several more, myself. Once they inspect your roof, they go back to the office and work up a contract and send it to you. You should read each contract carefully. They vary considerably.
Inspect the work as it's done and observe what they do. Don't accept exposed nails after the shingles are installed. My roofer had literally well over 100 exposed nails. I made them remove those shingles and replace them with properly installed shingles before they were paid.
If there is any chance of rain whatsoever (WHATSOEVER!), make sure they tarp at least until underlayment is in place.
Dan
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snipped-for-privacy@bellsouth.net wrote:

I don't like the recommendations contractors furnish - much rather have a contractor who has worked for someone I know and whose work I have seen and speaks for itself.
For any contracting job, I feel one is miles ahead by deciding on a product ahead of time, researching it to know the standards and methods, and asking educated questions. You are much better prepared to filter out the cut-and-run contractors.
After a bad roofing job, with a poor choice of product, done on our condo, I would add to the advice above:
BE THERE when the work is being done. No staples. Nailing is a critical issue, so make sure it is done right, right number, size and placement.
Underlayment will be right dimension plywood, not particle board, etc.
Commencement and completion dates.
Disposal of old roofing.
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The roofer claims he'll put 6 nails in each shingle with nail guns. Are nail guns acceptable for a good roof job?
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Lots of excellent suggestions above.
A few I'd add:
In my experience, 90% or more of "roof" leaks are actually flashing problems - it's pretty hard to screw up shingle application (not that some people don't manage):
http://www.homeevaluationservices.com/sliproof.JPG
but it can be quite difficult to flash intersections between the roof and something else properly.
For starters, are you doing a "tear off", or re-roofing over the original shingles?
IMO you may get satisfactory results with a re-roof if it's a "simple" roof, but in my experience if there is any intersection with a vertical surface (such as the side of a dormer) it can be VERY difficult to (re)flash such intersections properly during a re-roof. And even on a "simple" re-roof you want to pay close attention to the flashing at all roof penetrations - for example many of the vent-stack flashings that depend on a rubber collar around the stack for water seal are old enough so that the "rubber" seal may have deteriorated:
http://www.montanahomeinspections.com/inspection%20pics/api_plumbing_flashing.jpg
and such penetrations which will require re-flashing, not just a dab of roofer's cement to seal cracks.
Other frequent problems I see on both tear-offs and re-roofs include:
- Chimney problems not corrected before roofing. Have the chimney inspected *before* roofing, and coordinate any repairs with both the mason and roofer - you don't want end up seeing something like this:
http://www.joehallroofing.com/info/infofiles/cheap.jpg
which will require both masonry work (which can damage roofing) and re-flashing (which will mean removing some newly installed shingles).
- Incorrect chimney flashings to masonry chimneys. In most areas of the country the accepted industry best practice is "step flashing", a series of individual flashings which extend underneath the shingles and up the side of the chimney and are then covered with a "counter flashing" that is set ("let in") to the mortar joints.
http://www.copper.org/applications/architecture/arch_dhb/flashings_copings/images/57.gif
There are other ways to properly flash a chimney, but what you do NOT want to see is roofer's cement slobbered over a "flashing", it will start cracking, often within a year:
http://www.homeevaluationservices.com/27.jpg
or worse yet, no flashing at all:
http://www.realestateinspectorsgroup.com/xsites/Inspectors/realestateinspectorsgroup/content/uploadedFiles/nochimneyflashing.jpg
- Incorrect flashing at dormer sides - generally if done properly this is a step flashing (in this case, as seen before siding is installed):
http://www.gfsprague.com/house_pics/flashing/dormer_intersection.jpg
junctions with other materials, such conventional stucco or EIFS, have somewhat different flashing methods.
As you can see this flashing is difficult to inspect during a re-roof, and one way to save money on a tear-off is to re-use instead of replacing it.
- No kickouts on "blind" gutter ends. Big potential damage on this one as you may be directing water into walls. "Easier to show you than tell you":
http://www.nachi.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentidB88&d 51175817
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i247/badstucco1/Stucco3.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i247/badstucco1/KOStoDetail2.jpg
- Gutters and downspouts not properly (re) installed and wetting foundation. Use common sense here: the water should flow off the roof and into the gutters, not overshoot them or flow between the gutter and the structure, once in the gutters it should flow toward the downspouts without over flowing the sides at any point, and once in the downspouts it should exit at least 5' from the foundation at a location graded such that the water does not flow back toward the foundation. If you have any doubts, have the roofer direct a garden hose onto the roof area in question, and watch the results.
Michael Thomas Paragon Home Inspection, LLC Chicago, IL mdtATparagoninspectsDOTcom eight47-721-0776
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be sure any rotten or bowed wood is replaced . if you got bad wood the roof wont last.if it all looks bad,get all new wood on it. specify 30 year shingles by good manufacturer like corning .. around here they stick on the cheepest tamco shingles because people just dont know the difference. there is also a thick and thin tar paper , i go with the thick. make sure the nails used are long enough to go all the way thru the wood . get drip edge installed so the edges of the wood so it wont rot on the edges. get new vents for the furnace, bathroom vent ect installed.be sure to get enough roof vents put in,its a good time to add more if they are needed..lucas
http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm
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have the old shingles and tar paper removed. a roof will last alot longer by not putting shingles over old ones.if you have a v in the roof,have metal flashing put there,then the shingles,ive seen roovers just put tar paper in the v and later it leaks.
http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm
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