Roofing Question

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By visual inspection, roofer diagnoses buckling in some of the plywood sheathing and takes a down payment to buy supplies, including the plywood sheathing.
How does roofer know the thickness of the sheathing without ripping-off the shingles? Seems to me that he'll need to use the same thickness to match the existing sheathing that has not buckled. Thanks.
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On Jul 7, 9:43 am, Windswept@home (Clueless Mary) wrote:

If the roofer has enough experience in your neighborhood, he probably has a 90% confidence level what is the sheathing thickness. It's still an assumption on his part. If the guy is contemplating just guessing and going with it, that's not really a good sign. Did the roofer go into your attic to verify what was going on with the sheathing?
R
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On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 06:48:28 -0700, RicodJour

Agreed that your reply makes sense. The other concern I have, is how he/she NEEDS the down payment to buy supplies. Most supply houses around here have credit available. IMHO, not a good sign.
tom @ www.WorkAtHomePlans.com
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One of the top ten stupid things people do in life is pay in advance for repairs. If the person is licensed, experienced, and in business long enough, they will have the money or credit to buy the materials and get paid when the job is done.
NEVER PAY UP FRONT.
Steve
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wrote

The normal is to pay a deposit.
I guess you like doing shit for nothing?
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wrote

Huh? What I prefer is a company that has enough operating capital to be able to swing it so that in the three days from the time they start the job until they end it, they don't go out of business because they can't afford to buy supplies enough for the job.
Steve
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wrote

There's a difference between operating capital and a deposit. Please learn the difference.
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If I've read it once, I've read it a million times. If the local suppliers don't trust the person enough to extend credit, there is probably a reason. I have never had to front anyone money for supplies.
However, perhaps that is normal elsewhere.
nancy
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wrote

Must be normal where kjpro is from, as he finds deposits a vital part of business. Deposits are only usual and customary for custom work and special order goods.
Steve
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I agree completely, I wouldn't hesitate to put up, essentially, earnest money for something like that. I'm strictly talking about standard construction materials.
nancy
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wrote

It's comforting to know there's other rational logical people in here. Thanks.
Steve
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You mean as opposed to people that say one thing in one post and contradict themselves in another? I'm with you on that one.
Let's see what the people that write the rules have to say on the matter. We already looked at your home state of Nevada. Let's pick a few biggies.
California information for homeowners http://www.cslb.ca.gov/forms/hicnotice.pdf says this: Are you required to pay a down payment? If you are, the down payment should never be more than 10% of the contract price or $1,000, whichever is less. Is there a schedule of payments? If there is a schedule of payments, you should pay only as work is completed and not before. There are some exceptions - contact the CSLB to find out what they are.
That makes sense.
Nassau County New York information for homeowners (1.3 million residents) http://www.nassaucountyny.gov/agencies/OCA/Licensing/checklist.html says this: Is the Payment Schedule Fair? Avoid a firm that wants a large down payment. A fair down payment would be under 15%. Make payments as each phase of the work is completed. Hold back final payment until all problems have been corrected. Make sure the contract specifies a payment schedule.
That makes sense.
Massachusetts Sample Home Improvement Contract http://www.mass.gov/Eoca/docs/sampcont.pdf says this: Payments will be made according to the following SCHEDULE: $________ upon signing contract (*Not to exceed 1/3 of the total contract price OR the cost of special order items, whichever is greater*). $________ by __/__/____ or upon completion of
That makes sense, but personally, I think 1/3 of the total contract is pretty steep for a down payment.
Maybe you don't like government, even when they're trying to protect a homeowner. Fine. Let's see what the household names in home improvement have to say.
Bob Vila http://www.bobvila.com/HowTo_Library/Finding_the_Right_Contractor-Hiring_a_Pro-A1660.html says this: Try to limit your down payment. Some state laws limit the amount of money a contractor can request as a down payment. Contact your state or local consumer agency to find out what the law is in your area.
That makes sense.
Holmes on Homes http://www.holmesonhomes.com/tips_and_tricks_details.php?id=29 says this: One of the biggest complaints I hear from home owners who've been taken by their contractor is that they paid too much money upfront. Most contracts that home owners sign are based on time. THIS IS TOTALLY INCORRECT. You need to demand a contract and payment plan based on milestones, not set time periods. A good payment plan starts with the down payment. This should be no more than 15% up to $2,500 maximum. Never pay a contractor more than $2,500 before they've even stepped foot in your house.
That makes sense.
The only thing that doesn't make sense is your flip flopping and spouting off about NEVER PAY FOR WORK UP FRONT.
R
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RicodJour wrote:

http://www.bobvila.com/HowTo_Library/Finding_the_Right_Contractor-Hiring_a_Pro-A1660.html
In addition to the cites posted above, Home Depot and Lowes both require FULL payment IN ADVANCE of any work done. And we all know how disreputable and in need of cash they are. (Actually, they ARE disreputable.)
--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
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That's something that's always pissed me off. The big box stores do an end run around the contracting licensing laws because of some stupid contention that they are not contractors, but suppliers. Well, when someone supplies material and labor under one contract, that makes them a contractor. When they sub out the work, that makes them a general contractor.
The big box stores don't participate in restitution funds, obey the maximum deposit regulations, etc., etc. It's just wrong.
R
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RicodJour wrote: ...

So don't use them...if you could convince enough others (just like in the argument against cheap/inferior/import/whatever merchandise threads) they would either change their ways or quit offering the service...
--
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People would always use them. They know the name, they have low prices and high exposure. How many contractors do you know that have their own NASCAR team? They're the 900 pound gorilla, so people who don't know any better think they've gotta be good and don't know the alternatives.
They operate like a contractor, they should be held to the same rules and regulations. It's similar to saying that someone is not in the legislative branch so they don't have to comply with legislative directives, and then that they're not in the executive branch when they don't want to comply with executive directives. It's just stupid.
R
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RicodJour wrote:

Then they must be doing something right for their business model.
Who you want to be complaining to is either your legislature or enforcement depending on whether there isn't appropriate/adequate legislation in your opinion or there is lax enforcement of existing regulation. Same fundamental truth -- get enough widespread support and raise enough clamor and you can be the effector of change. Otherwise, your way to vote is by your own choice.
(And to be clear, not a personal attack intended, simply a pov on how/to whom/where to complain/bitch/protest...)
--

--

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Well, in one way, they're good for my business. Horror stories tend to loosen up the pocketbooks, and god knows there are enough big box installer horror stories. ;)
Going up against Home Depot would need to be a crusade, and I have enough of them at the moment, but your point is well taken.
R
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RicodJour wrote:

Amen to both! :)
But, imo there are two general classes that choose the box store as installer for a project -- the incurably cheap and the incurably naive/uneducated/uninformed. Neither is what you want as a client, either, until they have at least had an eduction. :(
As I've pointed out in previous threads on the topic, in present US consumer circles there seems to be an endless supply of people wanting the lowest initial cost whatever it is and more of whatever "it" is currently. As long as this mentality reigns predominant, the trend to such behavior by the retailers will also continue to follow the market, however much those who prefer small/independent/high(er) quality/etc., decry it. So far, there seems to be at least a survivable niche for most independent remodelers, etc. The folks really getting squeezed out are the small retailers, etc., that can't compete on the "bread and butter" items that formerly allowed them to be able to stock the lower-volume products.
--
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dpb wrote:

I think that a lot of the customers for HD and Lowes installation are people that use credit for everything. A lot of these people could never afford to dish out the money for a project, so they use the plastic and not only pay in advance, but with interest alot more than they would if they paid cash.

We small, quality contractors will always be around, because there are a lot of quality minded consumers still around. I cannot do all the work that I am asked to do, yet I never advertise, nor am I in the yellow pages. I just do good work. I am constantly amazed when a person calls out of the blue and we go over who knew who and who recommended me. (And I always get a deposit up front, or at the least, when the materials are delivered. But I never start work without a little money in my pocket.)
--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
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