roofing basics

[tom]

Make sure they nail properly into the correct place on the shingle. That, and flashing are the biggest problems I've noticed. Tom

[RicodJour]

Cover the entire roof with Ice & Water Shield prior to shingling. That stuff will _not_ be blown off unless the plywood comes with it.

R

[Noon-Air]

I am in the hurricane Katrina effected area and need to have my roof replaced. Yes I am doing my homework while waiting for the roofing contractors to have time to be able to give me quotes for a new roof. I would like some thoughts on what to ask for. I have been told that I should have the roofer use 30# felt, architectural shingles, and use 6 nails per shingle. If you were in areas that are prone to hurricanes, and tornados, what would you ask for on your family's homes?? I have never had to replace a roof before, I know its gonna cost money. As an HVAC contractor, I also know that folks are in business to make a profit. I don't have a problem with paying folks for what they do, I want good and not just "cheap". I am just wanting to get some insite on what to look for as far as a quality product and quality work.

Advice please??

[Duane Bozarth]

"NRCA and others who have assessed the hurricanes' damage believe most roof systems that were designed and installed according to current applicable building codes performed adequately during the hurricanes. In most instances, the roof systems NRCA knows to have sustained considerable damage were those that did not comply with current buildings codes, which contain much more stringent high-wind provisions than the codes' previous editions. In many instances, the damaged buildings and roof systems of which NRCA is aware were constructed before the current codes were adopted. It is unreasonable to expect buildings and roof systems to perform to the level of current building codes if the buildings were designed and constructed based on previous, less stringent code editions."

I agree w/ Rico which also reflects FEMA updated guidelines after 2004 in FL.

Basically, look into updated codes in FL and get the roofer to follow those if those in your area have not been updated to those standards. How much to do depends on how close you really are to the high-wind risk areas or whether you're farther inland and have only, say, 100-mph category winds rather than 200-mph. In the latter, making sure you have adequate tie-downs, etc., to try to keep the roof on is absolutely critical before you even get to the roofing itself.

[TURTLE]

This is Turtle.

1] Get the pound Felt that is recommended by the shingle manufactor. Some say 30# and some say 15 # .

2] The Good , Better , and Best is devided up by how may year shingles they are. They go 20 / 30 / 40 year types and are difference in grades as the number reflect.

3] If you do choose the cheaper type shingles do have the Zinc strip put at the pike of your roof to keep the roof rot stuff away. The cheap shingles will not have these Zinc strips in the tab of the shingles and your roof will rot. This stuff takes over on a roof , you can see it real good and looks like a oil that has bleed through the shingle from the inside or the felt. This is Not oil bleeding through but Roof Rot eating the shingles up. If you have the Zinc stuff in the shingles you don't have roof rot.

4] My rent House is 1,200 sq. ft. and I got price to roof it with the cheap 20 year shingles with the zinc strip installed at $1,900.00 and 45 years uppey to do shingles with zinc built into them was $2,300.00.

5] I researched the best brands as warranty and material which I found Elk brand was the top of the line but there was others that were with them close but still behind them. I had a problem with the zinc stripping in the Shingles on my own house and they bought my shingle and paid to have it reshingled totally . 6] Steve E-mail me and I have some bid sheets and cost to look over when they bid out my house last year and have the bid sheets for Elk Shingles.

TURTLE

[TURTLE]

This is Turtle.

so you say that when a shady contractor uses Elk Shingles and screws up the job and comes back and screws it up again. It is the Shingle manufactor's fault that the shingles blew off. If your contractor could read , he could read about the angle they allow to install them at and how to install them with the sticker strip attached like it should have been in the beginning.

TURTLE

[Norminn]

clipped

We discovered, because of a fairly bad roofing job, that Elk Prestique Plus do not go well on steep roofs. We had them put on the mansards on our condo roof in 1997. Many of them fell off, not requiring much wind to do so. My hubby was building manager at the time, and we researched a lot before we figured out what was wrong. Most, if not all, that fell off were not nailed properly. The contractor was good about callbacks, and after two or three, came back for a major re-do that included putting adhesive under all the tabs. The city also changed their installation requirements for steep rooofs, requiring the adhesive under the tabs. I was not happy when that was proposed, because I felt the condo board should have gone after the contractor to do the whole thing over. It basically looks like crap, because of the way shingles were cut and placed, but stayed on through last year's storms. Our highest wind was 70 mph, I believe, when Ivan or Frances flew by.....we lost a skylight from atrium that is roofed but open that had rotten wood around it but only a couple of shingles. The condo across the street lost a ton, and there were few houses that didn't lose at least a few.

I read an article just yesterday.....most Florida newspapers carry some good ones.....about tips for hurricane repair. This one said use 5/8" ply, not OSB, and screws at opposing angles, not straight in. Don't recall whether that was only for side sheath or for roof decks, but makes sense to me either place.

Try here:

A Florida website ... probably Dade County .... has a database of all kinds of technical info and ratings, by type and brand, for building products. I discovered it while looking for info about high impact windows. We have hurricane shutters, and would not be without them. We did plywood once; enough.

Whatever kind of roofing you select, read up on install instructions and watch that it is done right .. right number of nails, right place, not protruding and not too deep.

[Colbyt]

The really key word in the above statement is make sure they NAIL. Air guns are acceptable if they are using nails. Some of the quick fix guys like to use staples. In the real world they just don't hold as well.

Two other areas that it is easy to get cheated on are: All areas where a wall or brick chimney meet the roof on a slope must be "step flashed" and overflashed. The wall may not need the overflashing if new siding is going on.

The second big rip off is the work up the roof and don't take the time to raise the tabs and put the last nail under the tab. This is why you see a slight ridge running up a roof every so often on houses that were roofed about 5-8 years ago.

[John Willis]

On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 17:50:48 GMT, "Colbyt" scribbled this interesting note:

I've read this for years. The truth, as I've seen it, is that no matter what fastening method is used, it must be used correctly. I've seen hand-nailed jobs that were piss-poor and I've seen them that are excellent. We use pneumatic, Paslode roofing staple guns and have for thirty years and we simply do not have the blow-off problems you describe. And that includes when the not-so-infrequent tornado blows through!:~)

-- John Willis [e-mail] (Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

[Noon-Air]

The sheathing is not an issue... I already have 2 x 8 tongue and groove planking on the entire roof. I was just inquiring about the felt, shingles, and method of fastening. I am going by the current code on the Gulf Coast. What I was looking for is if there is anything that I need to look for to insure a quality installation.

[gfretwell]

In Florida that is minimum code. While the roof is off try to inspect your truss clips. You will probably be bad wood so that is usually easy.If you have a poured tie beam and straps embedded in the concrete, over the truss you are close to code. It is worth the extra money to have them shoot screws in next to the nails on the decking. That will hold the plywood down. DO NOT cover up any bad wood. They should also cement the leading edge of the shingles to the drip edge when they set the starter strip.

[Norminn]

clipped

Nope. I didn't suggest it was the mfg. fault. My long story was to illustrate that 1) this particular shingle not the greatest for a steep roof, 2) be aware of what bad installers can do so's to look out for it in the future, 3) gluing down the darn tabs might be worth thinking about (but there is probably a good reason I am not aware of for NOT doing so). The sticker strip was still attached. They are laminated shingles, and nailing on the nailing line leaves only 1/2" remaining of the bottom layer. Nailing off the line allowed them to tear away and fall off. The contractor used regular shingles to do the ridges, which looked awful. They redid that part, too. I am not on the condo board and didn't live here when the roofing was done.

[josh]

"Noon-Air" wrote

As you know, you can get the best of the best for material. But, if there's shortcuts and poor installation, the quality of products mean zilch.

I was always anal on proper prep work, it doesn't take a whole lot of time, and so what if it did. The contractor should be charging enough to do it right.

I would only be guessing at what your codes are, but I would expect the outlined below, to be very minimum for the job. Being from up north, I do know certain materials like the soil boots we use up here, won't take the heat down your way, and lead is preferred. I'll attempt to address areas of concern.

All bushes/shrubs etc. to be covered, especially if it's a steep pitch roof. But, excessive heat build up from _plastic_ tarps will burn up bushes/shrubs. Also, shingle debris left on lawns in high heat, will scorch the lawn within minutes. Tarps can almost be eliminated on a steep pitch, if jacks & boards are used along the bottom of the roof, to keep debris from sliding off. On lower pitched roofs, very little to no debris should fall on the ground. Debris can be walked across the roof to a dumpster/truck or protected staging area.

Complete tear-off. This means complete, none of this "we'll leave some felt on, it won't hurt anything". If you run into a contractor that tells you something to that effect, show them the door.

The entire decking to be gone over, pulling all existing roof covering fasteners. This is quick work with a tear-off shovels, the majority of nails will come up with the shingles, if they use the shovels correctly. I've seen guys ripping off shingles with their bare hands, I know those nails weren't pulled, because days later you can drive by and see nail humps where the shingles conformed around them.

The decking fasteners to be gone over by hammering down, and installing new fasteners as needed. Tear off shovels will grab decking fasteners, and some do pull out. It's important the integrity of the sheathing is not left compromised.

Once the deck is secured & all questionable sheathing has been replaced, it's time to cut out for ridge vent. A tape measure, and chalk line assures not too big of cut, and also a straight cut. The deck should be broom swept, and some even use a leaf blower afterwards. Do not let them cover up granules, shingle pieces, loose nails and such.

Drip edge should be installed on the eave edge first, then the water shield over it. If I was in a hurricane location, I would do what Rico suggests, and cover the entire surface with water shield. After all underlayment is installed, then the rake drip edge gets installed.

Shingles should overhang the eave drip by at least 1/2", I like to see 3/4" overhang along the entire perimeter. Do not let them install flush with the drip edge. A few seconds of time, several chalk lines can be marked off for reference points. They are also tricks of the trade like running a 7" wide shingle piece up the rakes, with tar line up & out, they can cut the shingles individually, or let overhang and chalk a line back to the piece hanging over 3/4". Make sure use the proper length fasteners, some use 1", they must use at least 1-1/4" length or what the manufacturer or your building code recommends. I would also have them run a bead of adhesive like gfretwell suggests on the starter strip. Do not let them flip a shingle upside down for the starter. The starter should be a 7" piece (if standard and not metric), with the tar line up and out. If they put the starter down incorrect, there's nothing holding the first course of shingle down from flapping in the wind. I would also have them run a bead down the rake drip edge, to assure wind will not lift the edges.

Around penetrations, there should be sealant under the shingles which go over the flashing. Same goes for step flashing.

There's a ton of stuff I could add, but it already looks like I'm writing a book. I better call it quits for now.

Oh, one more thing. If using a dimensional/architectural shingle, I believe every manufacturer sells the accessory cap, some like to cut corners and buy a regular shingle and cut for cap. You can always tell those that do.