I don't remember which product was used on my roof. It wasn't the most expensive, but not the cheapest either. But then I had no water barrier product like that for the prior 30 years and no ice damming ever, I live in NJ.
Current national building code, that most places follow, require it to extend up the roof from the lowest point to 2 ft past the heated living space. So, if you have a 2 ft soffit overhang at the bottom of the roof and then a wall where the living space starts, the barrier would extend 4 ft up the roof. The thinking is that's where ice damming can occur, with water backing up under the shingles.
No, it's used instead of felt or similar. It has a sticky backing, covered with paper, that gets peeled off. It then immediately sticks to the sheathing. And it's gooey, flexible enough that it will seal around the shingle nails. Felt is used the rest of the way up. If you want better protection for the whole roof, there are products that are impervious to water, tough, that can be used. They cost more than felt, but offer much better protection if shingles get blown off.
When getting the roof done, I'd make sure you have correct, adequate venting, both at the soffits and the peaks. Most building experts now agree that continuous ridge and soffit venting works best. Easy to do that right when doing the roof and it's important. For a ridge vent, I'd go with one like Air Vent Shingle Vent II, that's what I used.
i think this is now pretty standard treatment and should be normal up past the eaves where ice dams are likely to happen. 5-6ft would probably do.
some roofers will give you extra options for making this even better (ours cost an extra $300, but added another 15yrs to the warrantee).
considering the expense it is probably well worth it. had our roof been done correctly the first time the amount of decking and labor costs we had to cover this time around could have easily been offset by the better protection.
the same applies to type of shingles. always get the better ones (several layers thick) and always check references and get multiple quotes. go look at some of their jobs. some roofers are messy and leave poor edges, etc. check BBB too.
we had a wide range of quotes and some were outrageous (3x more!).
I don't think that "thickness" is the proper thing to be concerned with. I would think it's more important to ensure that it meets or exceeds specific industry standards and local code requirements.
Some info here: (my roofer used all GAF products as part of the GAF Lifetime Roofing System)
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The underlayment might need to be "associated" with the shingles used in order to ensure that all warranties are kept intact. It may be a money game, but some shingle manufacturers may not warranty their shingles unless their underlayment is used. In some cases, you might get a lesser warranty.
IOW, even if you find a barrier that is deemed the "best", your shingle manufacturer might not allow you use and also maintain your shingle warranty.
It will depend on the roof construction and the pitch. I think it's about
2 feet into the heated space for a "normally" pitched roof. However, I have a fairly flat section of roof over an addition and every roofer I spoke to quoted full ice barrier for the entire section. (The section is only about
12' x 16' so it was really only a couple of more strips than they would have used anyway. The peace of mind was worth the minimal extra cost.)
My reading has shown that full ice barrier on flat roofs is the norm. Is it a money grab? I don't really know.
First, depending on the shingle manufacturer, they may not use "felt", they may use a different type of underlayment. GAF uses Deck Armor:
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AFAIK, most manufacturers want their barrier installed directly onto the deck. I have read some articles that claim that installing it over an underlayment makes it easier to remove at a later date (ice barrier has an adhesive backing) but the bottom line is to follow the specific manufacturer's instructions to ensure that the warranty stays intact.
I've also seen mixed messages on underlayment/felt *over* the ice barrier. Again, it may be specific to the "system" you and your roofer choose.
Good point. When I said 2 ft into the heated space and not doing the whole section, I was thinking of a typical pitched roof. If you have one where it's at the low end of acceptable pitch, then I agree, using barrier on the whole section is right.
Check with your local building code. Around here it is required from the eave to three feet upward of the wall/eave line. That's the minimum coverage. No reason not to wrap the whole roof with it (excluding ride if you're using a ridge vent), if you want.
There are other reasons not to do the whole roof, which actually I think you touched on. Once you have that sticky rubbery sheet applied, it makes any future sheathing inspection, replacement, etc more difficult. With felt or similar, with a future tear off, you just rip it off and you can easily inspect and see the sheathing. Not so easy with a rubber sheet glued over the whole thing. I would not do the whole thing, unless like you said, it's a very low pitch roof. But cost is an issue, that barrier product is many times the cost of felt.
I had my roof re shingled last summer. I was given the option of a different underlayment and a few other things. For about $ 300 or so it jumped the wrrenty up to 50 years. Should be good for my lifetime.
There did seem to be a wide range of charges. I used the Home Advisor on the internet (as seen on TV) and with in 2 or 3 hours I got calls from 4 places so told them to come out, at different times. Got the quotes and it was from a low of about $ 6500 to about $ 18,000 for a bout 27 squares. I think I went with one that was the second lowest as it was still under $ 7000 and the company had been around for a good number of years.
About 6 or 8 Mexicans showed up at the day and time they were suspose to and worked all day and seemed to do a good job. We have had lots of wind and sofar no shingle has blown off.
we had a small tornado go through a few summers ago. not a single leak and no shingles moved.
took two neighbors garages off and did some damage to the house behind us and others down the road and such, but luckily we were off to the side of it by a few hundred yards.
not every day you look out your window and see a garage missing...
Yes. I'm curious if he would have said "6 or 8 Italians showed up" or "2 French guys, a Pollack, and 3 Canadians showed up" or "An African, a Jew, 3 Arabs and guy from Wisconsin showed up"
Just curious as to why he felt the need to tell us the nationality of the workers.
(Don't worry...I haven't forgotten that you have done similar things in the past)
I "think" Grace Ice and Water Shield was the original, but I would assume most brands are similar. I used IKO brand on my roof as that's what my shingle supplier stocked.
The ice and water shield should extend from the lower edge of the roof to a point that is 2-3 feet beyond the outside wall of the heated space.
Low slope roofs (less than 4/12 pitch) should be covered entirely with the weather membrane.
It's also wise to install it in the roof valley's to seal up any nail penetrations.
In cold climates, you should also use it along the edge of gable ends.
While not entirely necessary, I also used the membrane around major roof openings for our woodstove chimney flashing and plumbing vent.
There's no reason to cover the entire roof with the membrane, unless the roof is small enough that you might as well fill in the remainder of the roof after adhering to the above recommendations.
The weather membrane is self adhesive and applied directly to the wood decking. Roofing felt is not applied on top of the membrane, except where upper rows of felt overlap lower rows of membrane.
For the areas not covered with the membrane, I recommend using 30# felt. It costs slightly more, but is stronger and holds up better than the cheaper 15# felt.
Be prepared for sticker shock. :)
I paid $800 for our shingles in 2003 when we built our house. When I bought the exact same shingles in 2013 the price had ballooned to $4000!
Also, be sure metal drip edge is installed on all outer edges of your roof.
i should have mentioned that the guys who worked on our roof were all fairly younger white guys, most smoked, one was stupid enough to smoke weed (i smelled it) and the crew foreman didn't notice or didn't care. i didn't say anything either. as long as nobody fell off the roof...
i think it would be a tough job to do that all season. at least they didn't have to carry stuff up ladders. a hi-low came with the truck and set the stuff right on the roof.
I'm remembering watching All In The Family, decades ago, and Archie Bunker comments on an election. Been a long time, but his comment was some thing like "Now, there's a balanced ticket. A wop, a Jew, and a regular American."
As a group, Mexicans can be excellent roofers. More so than eskimos, for example. I think the ethnicity factor can be interesting to read.
I've carried shingles to a single story roof; that's a lot of work, for sure.
You might have called the cops on that MJ smoker. That's rather unsafe to be doing roof work while stoned. Smoking is also unwise. Carbon monoxide, and risk of starting a fire.
Even though my original question was directed towards Ralph, I was polite enough to answer your follow-up. Please return the favor and answer a question from me:
Is there a reason you asked if I support diversity?
What's the point to using it along the gable ends in cold? I don't see how ice damming, water backing up, can happen there. It also is only needed at the lower roof edges in cold climates, where ice damming can occur. In warmer climates, it's not needed at all.
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