Roof estimate questions

[Jay-T]

I am about to get a new roof done. I had a couple of estimates a year ago but then I put off doing it until now. The job is a complete tear-off and all new plywood decking. The present roof is old cedar shakes plus at least two asphalt shingle roofs on top of that. The rafters are all good, and the rafters have 1"x2" lathe strips nailed across them, and the old cedar shingles are on top of the lathe strips. The lathe strips are all in excellent shape.

On one of the old estimates there was a pre-printed line that said, "Install

8-ply (I think) plywood to all roof deck". The "8"(?) is crossed out and next to the line"All wood is 4-ply" was written in.

I assume that 8-ply is better and more expensive that 4-ply, but my guess is that 4-ply is also normal and okay to use. Anyone know if that's correct?

Another pre-printed line said, "Install 15/30 pound felt paper to all roof deck." The "30" is crossed out and the "15" is circled. And, next to the line "and Iceshield" is written in. Again, I am guessing that 30 pound is better than 15 pound, but that 15 pound is also normal and okay to use. Anyone know if that is correct?

The rafters are on 24-inch centers. The person who did this estimate said they would take the existing roofs off down to the lathe strips, and then would nail the 1/2-inch plywood on top of the lathe strips. The lathe strips are fairly close together (maybe an inch apart) and he said that even though the rafters are on 24-inch centers, 1/2-inch plywood instead of

3/4-inch plywood would be fine because the lathe strips add additional strength.

The estimate also specifies and includes a new ridge vent, new seamless gutters and downspouts, etc.

Another roofer who had looked at the job last year said that he would take the roof off down to the rafters and would use 3/4-inch plywood decking.

[hrhofmann]

what is it you want to know?

[Jay-T]

what is it you want to know?

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Thanks.

My two main questions are in paragraphs 3 and 4 of what I wrote -- in the last two sentences of each of those paragraphs.

I wrote the rest more as additional information just in case anyone saw anything in there that seemed to be out of whack or that I should be concerned about.

[Master Betty]

I didn't get past "The present roof is old cedar shakes plus at least two asphalt shingle roofs on top of that. "

Isn't that just wrong?

Besides that....Check your roofing company out thoroughly.

Jim

[rlz]

.

I'm not sure what the 8 versus 4 ply difference makes, but I would make sure they sure they use at least a 1/2" exterior plywood. If you live in a high-wind area, specify hurricane clips between each sheet of plywood, especially with the 24" span between rafters. This will stiffen the roof. I would recommend removing the lathe strips (just my opinion). For the cost of the tar paper, I tend to go with the 30, instead of

1. I think this is an important part of the protection, and lends itself to a longer life of the roof. Also again if you live in a high wind area, make sure the installer follows the shingle manufacturer's instruction. Here in Colorado, my code inforcement required six nails per 3-tab shingle.

Another item to consider is that I've read that a lot of shingles are being stolen from big retailers and sold black-market, so make sure you question extremely low-bidders.

Robin

[hallerb]

dont forget new drip edge

I would use him might cost a bit more but roofs are long term investments

[Red Green]

"Jay-T" wrote in news:hfbpa5$n16$ [e-mail]:

I'm not a roofer but done my share of roofing with asphalt shingles only so I can't really say much about the lathes. What I might comment on in this paragraph is to make sure the quote you get includes haul away AND dump fees of the old roof. That's a lot of material and weight being removed there.

You're lucky you're getting plywood vs OSB.

15lb is pretty much standard...on a standard roof.

What do you you have for a roof? I mean like the pitch, are there any valleys, subject to high winds, etc.?

Where are you located that iceshield is being specified? And where on the roof are they putting iceshield, ex, all valleys (they better!), all eaves. Grace Ice & Water Shield is considered the best.

If you have valleys, what type of valley will they install? Closed valley, open valley, woven valley?

Call your local building inspector. Ask them if 1/2" plywood is OK. And make sure roofer is using plywood vs OSB. Assume so. Roofer would not be discussing "plys" otherwise. OSB is OK but the minimum deck thickness depends on the material.

Is there an existing ridge vent? If not, has the roofer run the calculations to see if the soffit vents are adequate for the ridge vent?

They drop a lot of pumpking from airplanes there?

[Kerry L.]

I've never heard of 8 ply 1/2" for building, that's not saying it's not available.

Generally, when replacing existing 1/2", we would go with 4 ply over the 3 ply. You do not want 3 ply. Someone made reference for hurricane clips between the sheets. Those are _not_ hurricane clips, but "H" clips required for proper spacing between the sheets & a code requirement for movement such as expansion/contraction. It does stiffen up the sheets. Never had I seen 3/4" specified for 24" O.C. spacing, although 5/8" is quite common. 3/4" may be required in some areas, but sounds like over-kill from what I was used to.

The 1" material would come off in our area, our code would not allow one to go over it with plywood. Your code may be different. There's a load factor involved, which may cause a problem years down the road if/when someone wants to do a roof over.

There is quite a few details missing, you want details to protect yourself & to avoid conflicts. IMHO, GAF Shingle Mate 15 lb underlayment blows away

30 lb felt for underlayment. It is almost the same in price per roll, however you get 4 sq per roll of GAF vs 2 sq per roll of 30lb. The Shingle Mate lays much flatter than 30 lb. Some don't like to use it, simply because it has fiberglass in it, and they get the itches. Or, they never heard of it because they don't buy through a building/roofing supplier. Truly a better product tho.

On your iceguard, you need to make sure it is specified on where they will put it, and how much of it. When installing along the eave edge, it needs to be at least 2 ft on the inside of the building envelope. It comes in a 3 ft roll. So, if you have a 2 ft overhang, one width wouldn't even get it to

1 ft inside the envelope. Other areas where it should be installed, you can look up on the net, a lot quicker than I can type it.

On ridge vent, you need it specified how much they will use, and the brand. I've seen roofers throw a 8 ft section across a 40 ridge, and tell the customer, there's their ridge vent. You also want intake to go along with your ridge vent. This is done through soffit ventilation. Again, you can look up faster than I can type.

You need them to specify how much overhang of the shingles they will do. Along with are they installing drip edge, some locals don't require it. I'm a believer in it. You don't want shingle material cut flush with any edge, eave or rake edge.

Details, details, details, you can't have too many specifications.

[Red Green]

"Kerry L." wrote in news:hfccus$5oo$ [e-mail]:

Kerry makes a lot of other very good points.

And yes, drip edge (on all edges, eaves and rakes) which I totally failed to mention but wasn't really trying to make an all-inclusive post. I've made plenty of bucks replacing fascia boards and none of the houses had drip edge. And depending on location depends on the drip edge. 2-3" drip edge is fine in NC but in northern VT I used 8" galvanized (which goes up the roof about 6" if I recall) and that's not overkill there.

And let's hope the roofer knows the WSU (Waterproof Shingle Underlayment, aka ice shield) goes on top of the drip edge.

[clare]

It used to be common practice to re-roof over the original roof, and "conventional wisdom" was the second roof was the better roof.

That has changed ofer the years - but full felt (usually 15 lb) with ice-guard is now recommended - although many roofers will try to get away without installing the full felt. Before the ice-guard became common, 30 lb felt was common, and an inverted "starter strip" of shingles was often used along the bottom edge.

[clare]

And INSIST on NAILED, NOT STAPLED installation.

[clare]

Half inch is adequate - and if the "lath" on the roof is solid it would be foolish to remove it and throw it away. It alone makes a strong roof-base - the plywood seals it up and gives a consistent nailing base to install the shingles to.

[Ed Pawlowski]

There is an 8 ply plywood that is flatter than the regular grade, smoother, and seems to flex a little less. I'd not pay the much higher price for it though, as it is not needed for a roof deck.

Some roofers used 30 pound felt and no ice shield, but the ice shield is better, at least in cold climates.

[DerbyDad03]

I'm not a roofer, so I'm just curious about how the lath "gives a consistent nailing base to install the shingles to."

The OP said "The lathe strips are fairly close together (maybe an inch apart)"

Seems to me that some spots will be an 1 1/2" base and other spots will be only be a 1/2" (the gaps between the lath).

How is that "consistent"?

Again, not arguing, just trying to understand what you meant.

[Jim Elbrecht]

-snip-

That inverted starter strip was *way* too common- but it was also just plain stupid. Every bundle of shingles says to cut off the tabs. Inverting that row does nothing for you.

Jim

[Master Betty]

Thanks...I'm at the mercy of the contractor. That's why I check them out thoroughly. :-)

I was just trying to picture asphalt tiles over cedar shakes. But I guess that's common.

The roofing company that did my last roof removed the old shingles and put down a rubbery material then the shingles (not sure if I saw any felt). I never did get the chance to ask them what the "rubbery" material was. This company has a sterling reputation as one of the best roofing companies in town.

You wouldn't happen to know what the rubbery stuff is?

Jim

[ransley]

Pull a permit, you get a free inspection and dont pay till it passes. An inspector can help alot if the guy is cheating you. Flashing a chimney is one area most get ripped off, the flashing should be recessed into cuts into the mortar in the chimney, not caulked to it which fails prematurely in 5-10 years. Is he a hack, the local court house will have any suits filed, I made a mistake of hiring a guy that lost about a case a year, nobody could collect because the house and Mercedes was in the wifes name, the judgement I recieved is worthless.

[Ed Pawlowski]

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Maybe, maybe not. I've seen a couple of jobs where a permit was pulled. In one case, the inspector drove by to make sure the permit was correct (it was a $60,000 commercial job) and paid for, on the other residential, the inspector never even drove by. .

[Jay-T]

Thanks all. This is an excellent newsgroup and I really do appreciate all of the help, suggestions, etc.

I met with the roofer this morning and it helped to be able to ask him about some of the things that were mentioned. After going over it all, I decided to use him to do the job and he'll be doing it in the next week to 10 days. In his estimate he didn't ask for any deposit, which is good because I don't do deposits on jobs like this that can be done in a day or two. The estimate says payment upon completion, which is what I almost always do.

The house is an old style, side-by-side "twin", 2 story plus walk-up attic, with sloping roofs and two dormers, one in the front and one on the side. I own my half of the twin and another owner owns the other half/side. As far as what is already there, I bought it as a bank-owned property and the prior owner(s) had cedar shakes then at least two asphalt roofs on top of that -- one black and one green.

The estimate did say "Replace C3 1/2 alum> I am about to get a new roof done. I had a couple of estimates a

[Jay-T]

Yes, the estimate does include all haul away and dumping costs. He said he will have a 30 yard dumpster.