rfid credit card

I just received a new credit card with the rfid chip. Someone said a bad guy with a scanner can get close to you and get all of the info from the chip. Is this true? How safe are the new cards? Comments please!!

Reply to
herbwhite59
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on 10/20/2016, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com supposed :

Get a faraday cage wallet for it.

Reply to
FromTheRafters

Seems unlikely. Europe has been using these for years, apparently with no problems. My card shows slight burnishing lines on the metal chip. It looks like it actually makes a physical connection with the reader, which would not work with any remote scanning device.

-dan z-

Reply to
slate_leeper

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Why you don't need an RFID-blocking wallet You don't need a tinfoil hat, either. Opportunists have exploited consumer fears to create an industry that doesn't need to exist By Roger A. Grimes

...First and foremost, does your credit card actually have an RFID transmitter? The vast majority does not. Have you ever been told you can hold up your credit card to a wireless payment terminal, and without inserting your card, pay for something? For most of my friends, and the world in general, the answer is no.

Most RFID-enabled credit cards are heavily marketed as capable of being used wirelessly. They have names that imply wireless payment: PayPass, Blink, PayWave, Express Pay, and so on. Usually they bear a little RFID/contactless payment logo.

Hint: The new little golden metallic square on your new credit card does not indicate RFID. Also, many new contactless payment cards will have chip-and-PIN protection -- or will use the chip to securely protect even RFID communications.

If you look at the number of credit cards with RFID, you can?t even represent it statistically. It?s not 0 percent, but it?s so far below

1 percent that it might as well be 0 percent.

On top of that, most of the world is going to wireless payments using your mobile device. Apple Pay had more users and adopters in its first day in the market than all active users of RFID credit card products combined. Apple Pay works with every credit card you have, as long as your vendor supports Apple Pay. Did I mention that Apple Pay is far more secure in almost every way?

RFID cards are coming with chip-and-PIN protections, and the lessons learned from Apple Pay (and other mobile phone wireless payment solutions) are migrating to credit cards. The days when a bad guy can sit on a corner and sniff your credit card information out of thin air are numbered.

Today?s smart criminals break into websites and steal hundreds of thousands to tens of millions of credit cards at a time. Why would a criminal go to the effort and expense of stealing credit card info one card at a time when you can steal a million in one shot?

Still worried? If you actually have an RFID-enabled credit card, it turns out aluminum foil does the same job, if not better, than an expensive RFID-blocking sleeve. I know I?m going to get email from RFID-blocking vendors saying their products protect better than aluminum foil. No doubt that's true in some cases.

But if you're worried about that, you should also be wrapping your car keys in aluminum foil. Now we're in the paranoid zone. I?ve heard from readers who have -- I?m not making this up -- removed every electronic product in their house due to hacking fears. They?ve sold their new cars with embedded computers and gone back to older models without any. I can?t tell if I?m dealing with regular paranoid people or true paranoid schizophrenics.

If you have a credit card, there?s a huge risk it will be hacked, but not by a guy sitting on a corner sniffing for your card as you walk by. The former is a fact of life. In the latter case, you might have a better chance of winning the lottery.

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EMV Chips, RFID, and Who is Actually Ripping You Off (It?s Not Who You Think) Posted by: Brian Kidwell

The original title of this post was going to be: ?Electronic Pickpocketing: Why RFID Protection is Essential While Traveling.? As I dug deeper into the research, I realized that title didn?t make any sense and that I had been fooled by some really effective marketing. I would have been perpetuating the myth, rather than giving you the facts.

Credit card skimming involves someone getting close enough to you with a credit card reader and scanning your credit card. They could potentially do this without you being aware of it going on. You?re simply walking by, someone walks behind you with a scanner, and that information is automatically sent to their computer.

Why would credit card companies and the US government make our information so vulnerable? Well, it?s not as vulnerable as some companies claim.

Randy Vanderhoof, the executive director of the Smart Card Alliance, says ?We?ve got six years of history, a hundred million users of these cards, and we haven?t seen any documented cases of this kind of fraudulent transaction. The reason we think that?s the case is that it?s very difficult to monetize this as a criminal.?

Reply to
Moe DeLoughan

Are you sure it is an RFID chip? Many new cards have chips, but I don't think they are RFID. There are actually contacts on the card that make when plugged into the reader.

Reply to
Art Todesco

It isn't an RFID chip. Thus you have to put it in the machine with the chip in a certain way for the chip to be read.

Reply to
Kurt V. Ullman

Nice to know. I got my first card with the chip that you must insert and while it takes a little longer, transaction is smooth. I would not want one of those thingies where you just wave your magic wand past the machine.

Reply to
Frank

If you can see the chip in the card (ie, its contacts), then it is not RFID. RFID cards are read with RF and don't have contacts. The new cards that you insert into a reader are contact cards.

Reply to
Pat

Having used them for well over 5 years now I strongly beg to differ with you - as I can use my card in MANY places by simply waving it over the card terminal without touching it - just like using my RFID tag to open the office door. The range is inches - not feet. - but no electrical contact is required. The tap and pay" option does not even need the PIN number - and is usually limitted to small purchaces (under $50).

Reply to
clare

wrote

| Having used them for well over 5 years now I strongly beg to differ | with you - as I can use my card in MANY places by simply waving it | over the card terminal without touching it - just like using my RFID | tag to open the office door. The range is inches - not feet. - but no | electrical contact is required.

In that case you probably have both. The chip requires insertion into the reader. An additional RFID chip/antenna could allow "waving". In most cases a card with RFID will have a small logo on the back that looks like a speaker emitting radio waves.

In any case, if you can wave it then it can be read and is best kept in a metal sleeve. I used to have RFID and would cut the RFID antenna out of the card. That card has now switched to chip.

A way to check for RFID is with a cellphone app. I don't remember the name of it, but when I first wanted to destroy the RFID capability I downloaded a free Android app to scan with. It allows the phone to read the RFID chip by just putting the card near the phone. That provides a way to find out if you have an RFID antenna and also test for success if you want to destroy it.

Reply to
Mayayana

No, there is only one "active device" in the card.

All apps I have found require additional hardware - usually blue-tooth.

Reply to
clare

wrote in

| > A way to check for RFID is with a cellphone app. | >I don't remember the name of it, but when I first | >wanted to destroy the RFID capability I downloaded | >a free Android app to scan with. It allows the phone | >to read the RFID chip by just putting the card near | >the phone. That provides a way to find out if you | >have an RFID antenna and also test for success if | >you want to destroy it. | > | All apps I have found require additional hardware - usually | blue-tooth.

Suit yourself. It doesn't sound like you really care one way or the other. In my case I wanted to be sure I'd disabled the RFID chip. I know little about cellphones. I just downloaded an app to a friend's phone. A lightweight Galaxy. Nothing special. I have no idea whether it has bluetooth. I just ran the app and it worked. It uses some kind of sensor in the phone. Anyone who cares can research it for themselves.

Reply to
Mayayana

Mine are contacts. No RF.

Greg

Reply to
gregz

Most of the RFID chip cards that I've seen have some kind of cute-sy logo like 'zip pay' with some kind of a magnetic or electrical wave picture on the card.

Reply to
Art Todesco

"Art Todesco" wrote

| Most of the RFID chip cards that I've seen have some kind of cute-sy | logo like 'zip pay' with some kind of a magnetic or electrical wave | picture on the card.

The one I had (only one out of 5 cards) had no such indication. There was only the tiny icon I mentioned on the back -- the speaker or dish antenna with maybe 3 arcs to indicate radio waves. That's sort of an official logo, but I don't know whether it's universally used. Other than that there was no sign, the RFID chip was almost perfectly flat, and the company did not inform me or offer an option whether to have the chip. On the first card I could just barely see the chip and drilled a tiny hole in it. On the next card the chip was too small to find, but as it turned out I had an extra card, so I shaved that one down to figure out where to drill the new hole. My latest card has the new chip and no RFID logo. But I now keep all cards in a folded piece of aluminum flashing, inside my wallet, anyway.

Reply to
Mayayana

What I KNOW from being in the IT business is an RFID chip requires an RFID reader to read it, and normal smartphones do NOT have that functionality built in.

I HAVE done the research - the apps for cell phones to read RFID ALL - every one I found and investigated - require an addon bluetooth RFID scanner.

As usual you don't know what you are talking about.

Reply to
clare

wrote

| What I KNOW from being in the IT business is an RFID chip requires an | RFID reader to read it, and normal smartphones do NOT have that | functionality built in. |

You seem to be in every business. Whatever the topic, you've been an expert in exactly that field for decades. Your breadth of knowledge is stunningly impressive.

| As usual you don't know what you are talking about.

Lucky thing I'm so dumb. Otherwise the scanner might not have worked. :)

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Reply to
Mayayana

I have 3 in my pocket - have been using both the chip and pin and the "tap and go" features for well over 5 years. The 2 mastercards have virtually identical "foil patterns" for the chip - while the VISA card has a similar but distinctly different foil pattern. They utilize "near field communication" protocol - a subset of RFID technology.

We also use a NFC or RFID based door lock system at the office. Neither my tablet or blackberry recognise the key tag. (technically a passive RFID device, but only readable by the reader at distances less than 10mm)

NFC will be at the heart of cell-phone based payment systems and is part of the latest apple phones that support "Apple Pay". (IPhone 6 and up)

Neither my Android tablet or my blackberry sense the proximity of my credit cards or "key" tag

NFC and RFID, or are they even different at all?

Short Answer: RFID is the process by which items are uniquely identified using radio waves, and NFC is a specialized subset within the family of RFID technology. Specifically, NFC is a branch of High-Frequency (HF) RFID, and both operate at the 13.56 MHz frequency. NFC is designed to be a secure form of data exchange, and an NFC device is capable of being both an NFC reader and an NFC tag. This unique feature allows NFC devices to communicate peer-to-peer.

Long Answer: By definition, RFID is the method of uniquely identifying items using radio waves. At a minimum, an RFID system comprises a tag, a reader, and an antenna. The reader sends an interrogating signal to the tag via the antenna, and the tag responds with its unique information. RFID tags are either Active or Passive.

Active RFID tags contain their own power source giving them the ability to broadcast with a read range of up to 100 meters. Their long read range makes active RFID tags ideal for many industries where asset location and other improvements in logistics are important.

Passive RFID tags do not have their own power source. Instead, they are powered by the electromagnetic energy transmitted from the RFID reader. Because the radio waves must be strong enough to power the tags, passive RFID tags have a read range from near contact and up to

25 meters.

Passive RFID tags primarily operate at three frequency ranges: Low Frequency (LF) 125 -134 kHz High Frequency (HF)13.56 MHz Ultra High Frequency (UHF) 856 MHz to 960 MHz

Near-field communication devices operate at the same frequency (13.56 MHz) as HF RFID readers and tags. The standards and protocols of the NFC format is based on RFID standards outlined in ISO/IEC 14443, FeliCa, and the basis for parts of ISO/IEC 18092. These standards deal with the use of RFID in proximity cards.

As a finely honed version of HF RFID, near-field communication devices have taken advantage of the short read range limitations of its radio frequency. Because NFC devices must be in close proximity to each other, usually no more than a few centimeters, it has become a popular choice for secure communication between consumer devices such as smartphones.

Peer-to-peer communication is a feature that sets NFC apart from typical RFID devices. An NFC device is able to act both as a reader and as a tag. This unique ability has made NFC a popular choice for contactless payment, a key driver in the decision by influential players in the mobile industry to include NFC in newer smartphones. Also, NFC smartphones pass along information from one smartphone to the other by tapping the two devices together, which turns sharing data such as contact info or photographs into a simple task. Recently, you may have seen advertising campaigns that used smart posters to pass information along to the consumers.

Also, NFC devices can read passive NFC tags, and some NFC devices are able to read passive HF RFID tags that are compliant with ISO 15693. The data on these tags can contain commands for the device such as opening a specific mobile application. You may start seeing HF RFID tags and NFC tags more frequently in advertisements, posters, and signs as it?s an efficient method to pass along information to consumers.

At the end of the day, NFC builds upon the standards of HF RFID and turns the limitations of its operating frequency into a unique feature of near-field communication.

Reply to
clare

Good observation. And I might add that this is alt.home.repair.

Posters can be anyone they want; electrician, plumber, computer expert, auto mechanic or the most bad-ass jail guard in North America, whatever...and half the subscribers here will be gullible enough to believe them.

You only need to look at our last election to see there is no shortage of stupidity in the US.

Reply to
Jack of All trades

"Jack of All trades" wrote

| Posters can be anyone they want; electrician, plumber, computer expert, auto mechanic or the most bad-ass jail guard in North America, whatever...and half the subscribers here will be gullible enough to believe them. |

A know-it-all's paradise. But I figure that while it's not worthwhile discussing with a know-it-all, it is worthwhile correcting them, for the sake of keeping the public record accurate. Whether people are gullible or not, it helps if they can get accurate information.

Know-it-alls don't actually have any passion for the knowledge and understanding they claim to possess. They only care about holding forth and "winning" arguments. So they often know just enough about many things to sound like they know what they're talking about.

I tend to assess the value of what people tell me with that in mind. If I have to trust someone's info I want that person to be someone who values understanding in itself, because they'll want to share that with me and they'll feel responsible to share accurate information. The know-it-all, on the other hand, really couldn't care less if he gives me accurate information, or whether I might suffer as a result. He only wants to polish his imagined public image.

Reply to
Mayayana

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