Rewiring house in Ontario, Canada

We just bought a house and one of the first things I want to do is rewire it to get rid of the aluminum wiring. I've been studying the Ontario Electrical Code Simplified book to get an idea of what's going to be involved. I'm going to be working with an electrician on this (although I will hopefully do most of the work), but I don't want to bother him yet, since it's still 6 weeks before we actually get the house.
I have access to all the floors (except for the finished basement) from either the attic or crawl space, so I'm hoping this will require very little opening up of the walls. There is one question I have though .... on a rewiring project, do I need to comply with the rule that requires the wire to be attached to the stud within 12" (30cm) of the box and 5' (1.5m) thereafter? If so, then this would definately require more holes in the walls? If I don't need to comply with this rule on a reno, does anyone know which rule says so (remembering it's the Ontario, Canada codes that apply to me, not the NEC or CEC).
Oh, one more thing, if I infact don't need to secure the wiring inside the walls, would it be advisable to use BX wire instead of Romex, since there will be a greater chance of accidentally hitting the wires with nails, etc. when hanging pictures, etc.
Thank you so much, Harry
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In the US you don't need to attach the wire to studs for stuff done after the wall was put in.
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Keep in mind that hitting the wiring with nails does not have much of anything to do with wires being attached to studs. In fact, a pulled wire which is relatively loose is safer wrt nails. --Phil
Harry Muscle wrote:

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Phil Munro Dept of Electrical & Computer Engin
mailto: snipped-for-privacy@cc.ysu.edu Youngstown State University
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Harry Muscle wrote:

I was sure this was in P.S.Knight's book, but at a glance I can't see it. But I also happen to have a copy of Electrical Wiring Residential, based on the 2002 Canadian Electrical Code, by Martin, Muller and Stephenson. I found it in the bookstore of a Community College. On page 81 there is the paragraph:
"Rule 12-616 permits armoured cables to be 'fished' between boxes or other access points without additional protection. The logic is similar to the exception that permits nonmetallic-sheathed cable to be fished between outlets without requiring supports as stated in Rule 12-520."
So it looks like rule 12-520 is what you're looking for, but I don't have a copy of the code itself. Interestingly there is no mention of it in the NM section of the book, just this sideways comment in the armoured section.

You'll find many fans of armoured cable on this group but I'd guess 95% of do-it-yourself types (and 100% of professionals?) use the non-metallic stuff when code permits it. Armoured is more expensive to buy and harder (ie, more expensive) to work with. I believe the theory is that in an open wall cavity, non-metallic cable will just get pushed out of the way by a nail. And besides, you shouldn't hang pictures by driving 2" nails through your drywall.
If you want to use armoured, can you get old-work boxes that take the right cable clamps? The ones I see have internal cable clamps for (I think) NM only.
Chip C Toronto
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about getting a permit, ask the inspector who will be doing your house what he/she wants. I suspect as soon as you ask, you will be labelled as a oh-oh-another-know-nothing-handyman and he/she will tell you it is a must.
Since the code says it should be attached, you better do it. Or, rethink changing everything to copper and just put all new receptacles in. There's nothing wrong with aluminum AFAIK except corrosion at joints. Perhaps change a few of the easy circuits to copper if it makes you feel better.
Sounds to me like make-work. ...thehick
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There is nothing wrong with AL wiring. As long as the installer used the proper devices AL-CU or pigtailed out in copper for devices not dual rated. My home circa 1971 has AL wiring. I tightened the panel when I bought the house and everything is ducky.
New homes in Arizona have all the big wire as AL anyway.
Meggar the circuits one by one and see if there are any problems.
You will spend a lot of time, effort and money for what? Peace of mind?
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No need to staple the wires on rework, inspector will not even look. BX is a waste of effort, hard to work with, good source of reference books and expert assistance is Wiring Mart, look it up in book, 3 locations in the GTA. Alum wire affects insurance rates and this 'safe' product burns down hundreds of homes each year. Yank it out, sell it for scrap. Alum is good for beer cans and nothing else. The lazy assed answers about AL being fine as wiring is from too lazy to care idiots waiting for a burn out. AL affects your insurance rate, resale value, etc. Get rid of it.
The prob with AL wire is it is easily nicked, prone to overheat and corrode as well as premature failure. Why save the ten dollars????
-- Troweller^nospam^@canada.com
Remove the obvious to reply. Experienced and reliable Concrete Finishing and Synthetic Stucco application in the GTA.

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Harry Muscle ( snipped-for-privacy@stonyx.com) said...

Simple answer: no.
Detailed answer, the full rule in the Ontario Electrical Safety Code you mention (note Subrule (3)):
12-510 Running of Cable between Boxes and Fittings
(1) Where the cable is run between boxes and fittings, it shall be supported by straps or other devices located within 300 mm of every box or fitting and at intervals of not more than 1.5 m throughout the run. (2) Cables run through holes in joists or studs shall be considered to be supported. (3) Notwithstanding Subrules (1) and (2), where the cable is run as concealed wiring such that it is impracticable to support it, the cable shall be permitted to be fished and need not be supported between boxes and fittings.
Rules 12-5xx apply to nonmetalic sheathed cable (eg: Romex).
--
Calvin Henry-Cotnam
"Never ascribe to malice what can equally be explained by incompetence."
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Wonderful news, thank you so much to everyone who responded. Not having to secure it inside the walls will definately make it easier to avoid making tons of holes or pulling whole sections off.
As for BX wiring, would there be any real benefit to using it, or would I just be making things more expensive and harder to work with for no real benefit?
Thanks, Harry
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Unless local codes require it, stick with romex. Easier to work with and less expensive.
However, if the house is PROPERLY wired with aluminum wire AND the switches/outlets/etc are properly rated for aluminum, rewireing is a waste of time and $$.
If you do it anyway, and the switches/outlets/etc are spec'd for aluminum only, you will have to replace all of them.
--
Rich Greenberg Marietta, GA, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 770 321 6507
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
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The outlets and plugs are all pretty old and yellowing, so I would replace them all even if I wasn't rewiring ... but rewiring will give me that piece of mind I would like ... plus I'm having the fuse panel changed to breakers anyway, and would like to add a few extra circuits, so rewiring only makes sense ...
Harry
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Your answer about fastening the cable is answered in this thread, however, if you have drywall, don't be afraid of opening it up. In a busy area where there is a lot of wires, it is simpler to pull a whole sheet than to patch a couple of cut-outs. Life is hard enough without worrying about a bit of cheap drywall. If you open up outside walls it is an opportunity to seal air leaks, beef up insulated and upgrade the vapour barrier if the house even has one. Been there, done that, glad I did. I just pulled a couple of sheets in the kitchen area to revise some wiring, it allowed me to move some boxes, pull some additional cable and to do a good job as well. Now you cannot tell that the walls were just opened.

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On 6/9/2005 3:32:24 PM, "Harry Muscle" wrote:

The assumption that you only have to adhere to the Ontario code is incorrect. In fact there is no Ontario code. Rather, you have to adhere to the CEC and whatever additional requirements Ontario and your municipality have.
- NRen2k5
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There is the Ontario Electrical Safety Code, a package of CEC and amendments. I believe this is the document the Electrical Supply Authority will enforce.
j
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Are you talking of a HOA or Condo management? If you are in a condo, usually, you do NOT own the outside of your unit, and management can tell you what to do outside. If you have a freehold unit, not governed by the Condo management, you may be able to do what you want - leaving the fence. I am not familiar with the actual power of a HOA association over private property, if this is what you have. You may want to read the documents covering your ownership and possibly demand to see their documents that give them the authority.

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Thus spake Harry Muscle:

The simple answer: ask your electrician. One question shouldn't bother him 6 weeks before your job starts. He should be happy to answer it. If he is peeved by one question, maybe you should take the hint and find one you feel comfortable discussing such things with.
Especially in the kitchen, don't be afraid to pull down sheet rock and run your wires. New sheet rock looks nice, it's messy only for a short period, and is easy to reinstall. Pay someone to do the "mud and tape" if you're not skilled at that kind of finish work. Plan for many more outlets in the kitchen, as long as you're rewiring; kitchens are famous for being typically under-powered. I put 4x4 boxes with double duplex outlets on each counter, and a couple more around.
Consider running cat 5e network cable (2 runs each) and TV cable (2 runs each) to the rooms, as long as you're pulling wire. Maybe optical fibre too (also recommend 2 runs each). Terminate all at a convenient point near the phone and TV service entry, some place you'll eventually put network and other service distribution equipment.
I know that this sounds like orders of magnitude above the complexity of just rewiring the electrical system, but now is the ideal time to consider this. You wouldn't want to do this job twice, would you? It will all be an investment in the value of the home, both to your family and when it comes time to sell.
Good luck!
--
Please, no "Go Google this" replies. I wouldn\'t
ask a question here if I hadn\'t done that already.
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