Hi,
I need to replace the valves right where the water service comes in. My water company turns the water off for free and then turns it on for $50. So it's much cheaper than hiring a plumber for the job.
One thing that I am not sure about is this. Once the water is turned off, how will I be able to get all the water out of the pipe (that leads to the street) so I can do my soldering?
Many thanks in advance,
Aaron
You could use a compression fitting valve?
BTW we inadvertently ended up with two ball valves in series. The incoming cold water pipe from street is three quarter copper it has a 3/4" ball valve. The in house piping is half inch and has a 1/2" ball valve. In between the two there is a union. The unexpceted and unplanned advantage of ending up with that is; by shutting off the street water, then the house water it is possible to open up the union with very little water in the short few inches of pipe between the two valves. Then rig some sort of drainage and by gently opening up the upper house valve it is possible to drain down the house piping in a controlled manner (opening up something further along of course to allow air into the emptying system). Just a thought anyway.
If this is so you can turn off the water when you want why not get a buffalo box key and turn off the service yourself, I think Menards and HD have them cheap.
When you cut the pipe, the water drains out. If need be, push a smaller diameter vinyl hose in it and force some air through it. You can also shove bread into the pipe. It will disolve rather quickly and it gives you time to get the soldering done. Just make all your prep work that you can get done before hand first, then put the new valve on and solder quickly. Bubba
use MAPP GAS WITH MAPP GAS TORCH! regular propane isnt too good on larger lines
Thanks, but why would I cut the pipe? I thought I would sweat off the old valve...
These are 3/4" pipes. Still?
Yes, sweat it off. But if there is water in there (often the curb stop doesn't shut off completely) you may be in for a tough time.
Far better (and accepted practice) is not to solder at all, but rather flare the end of the copper and use a flare adapter into a threaded valve. The copper is certainly soft Type L or K and flaring is relatively easy with a simple tool.
Jim
Get most of it out by turning on the lowest faucet and the highest faucet. Is that what you mean?
I used bread with the water heater, where one pipe wouldn't stop dripping (even though I opened the faucet one the second floor. At least I think I did.) The bread worked quite well. I may have learned about it here. Maybe from you. Thanks, you or guys.
I don't know but I thought no one did that. I think it's probably harder that sweating it on.... To get it on, first you put it on and then you get it hot. You'll probably get it hot everywhere at once, but if you don't, you can still have a well sealed joint. To get it off, you have to get it hot, keep it hot everywhere, and pull it off while it's hot. You have to grab on to it to pull it off at the same time your other hand is keeping it hot with a torch, and yet not burn your first hand with the flame.
Then there will still be a layer of solder on the pipe, and maybe some little mountaings, which you can wipe off I think with a rag while it is hot enough, while somehow not burning your hand. If you don't get it off, you will have a hard to impossible time getting the new valve on.
I haven't soldered much pipe, but I have soldered a lot of electronics, and I used to try soldering things off. I have all kinds of desoldering tools and none work well**. I learned it was more trouble than it was worth most of the time. I think the same is true with water pipe.
Aren't you glad you asked?
**I have solder wick, a solder bulb, a soldering iron with a built in suction bulb, and a spring-loaded solder sucker. None of these things works very well and afaik none are available in water pipe size anyhow. What I usually do is heat and melt with a regular soldering iron, and then blow the solder off with a soda straw. That works for wire connections, but one can't blow the solder out of the tiny space between a pipe and a valve.In this case, cut it off, on both sides. Leave as much as possible sticking out of the wall, and if you have neough room to maneuver the torch that you can solder the new valve onto the stub, you can do that, but you may need to add a couple inches of pipe to one stub or the other, to replace what got lost inside the valve when you cut the valve off.
Plus you need a coupler, whatever they are called. You should know that there are two kinds. One has a dimple inside, half way from one end to the other. These are very useful in new work, or in all but the last joint in most replacement work, because it makes it easy to slide the coupler on just half way. But it's a big problem where the pipes can't move apart. For that get the couplers with no dimple.
I didn't know they made ttehm with no dimple, plus I wanted to finish, so I wpent a lot of time trying to grind off that dimple, and it's amazing, considering how soft copper is, how little progress I made. I guess most of the time I never quite touched it.
turn it off for free and charge to turn it back on??? Sounds like bs to me. I'd turn it off myself.
as for getting the water out, once you cut the old valve off, then the water may run out on its own. If it's a horizontal line, and it won't quit dripping, then stuff a measure of bread down the line, and do your soldering. Then the bread will dissolove when you turn the water back on. (or when the man does, if you decide to wuss out and pay)
s
propane or butane is fine. they used it for decades before MAPP was invented.
sThese are 3/4" pipes. Still?
you can't flare rigid copper. so, it's not 'accepted' practice.
s
true... I'm thinking a compression fitting might be OK but if you sweat the old valve off, the pipe should be "pre-tinned" so it'll draw solder easily. you'll need to sand it down though to fit the new valve on.
nate
Steve Barker wrote:
I said: "...soft Type L or K..."
------ j
Something similar to this was discussed a few weeks back. I would use a ball valve with female threads and 2 male adapters. Sweat a male adapter onto the supply side of the pipe, screw the valve onto it, turn the water back on and check for leaks. then sweat the other MA to a short section of pipe and screw it into the valve, and then hook up the section of pipe to the rest of the pipe with a coupling. This way you don't have to worry about getting the valve too hot and ruining it, and you are going copper-copper, whih is usually easier that copper-brass. Larry
yeah untill the low lead solder came out, its melting temperature is higher, MAPP makes the new solder work much easier
in those cases perhaps.... i don't use the lead free shit.
s
yeah untill the low lead solder came out, its melting temperature is higher, MAPP makes the new solder work much easier
OK, I'll grant that you can use pliers for this.
Doesn't the man have a 5-sided socket wrench?
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