Replacing Sill supporting beam

Looking at the floor joists of our porch I noticed they are resting on a long board that is nailed horizontally into the band joist. The porch has to be at least 60 - 80 years old. I can't believe the board has supported these joist without separating from the sill all these years. I'm not a carpenter, but I can tell this isn't a good way to support a floor, even if it is just a porch floor. The joists span 9.5 feet. Pictures of the 3rd -

8th joists in this site
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show you how the joist rest on this hanging board. You can't see the sill it's nailed into.

Need to shore up the porch before putting in new posts. Thus, I need to support the outer band joist and this joists holding board at the same time. Was looking to use A-frame structures to catch the both beams/boards. However, I am just afraid the nails of this joist supporting board may come loose or crack if I don't do it right. Any way to replace or support this beam so it will have some more structural integrity?

Reply to
Charlie S.
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Not sure if this is the Usenet group I should be using to post this type of question. Any suggestions on where to turn to for this type of help?

Reply to
Charlie S.

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This is probably as good a place as any to post this.

I looked at the pics and was unclear what exactly the " A-frame structures" you were proposing were and how/where they would fit?

Have you considered joist hangers? I am not a carpenter but I have seen those used in these sort of circumstances.

Was that a hole you were trying to highlight with the flashlight? It is difficult to see.

Reply to
P. Thompson

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I was thinking of building a smaller version of the porch swing A-frame I just posted on the site (see above). I would cut the top of the A to make it flat and rest the the sill on it. I would probably use smaller beams to holds the two sides together.

I also posted some diagrams of what I'm trying to build and do. I don't know how clear they might be.

Hanger joist may be helpful, but these floors are not that thick. I'd have to use short nails or screws... not offering much support. When I am finished with the granite footings and outside posts, I was thinking of running two 2x8's perpendicular to the joists and support them on posts.

I was just trying to make it easier to see the conditions of the joists and their connecting points. The tenth joist seems to have some damage.

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Reply to
Charlie S.

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I was thinking of building a smaller version of the porch swing A-frame I just posted on the site (see above). I would cut the top of the A to make it flat and rest the the sill on it. I would probably use smaller beams to holds the two sides together.

I also posted some diagrams of what I'm trying to build and do. I don't know how clear they might be.

Hanger joist may be helpful, but these floors are not that thick. I'd have to use short nails or screws... not offering much support. When I am finished with the granite footings and outside posts, I was thinking of running two 2x8's perpendicular to the joists and support them on posts.

I was just trying to make it easier to see the conditions of the joists and their connecting points. The tenth joist seems to have some damage.

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Reply to
Charlie S.

I wouldn't get really worried if it has held this way for over 60 years. If you want to reinforce the floor joist to band joist connection the way to do it is with joist hangers. In this case the ones that wrap around the bottom won't work so you will have to go with the simple angle plates. As you can see from the cracks extending from the notches, that's why code doesn't allow that anymore. The 10D nails made specifically for the joist hangers have a vertical shear load, not a pull out load, so the 1 1/2 inch length is plenty.

Not sure where you are going with the A frame. The porch is attached to the house so you only have to worry about a vertical load. Are you replacing the block columns? If so, I'd get some 4x4s, foot long pieces of maybe 2x8 and some oak shims from a mobile home supply store (or a bunch of cabinet shims). Cut the 4x4s 2 inches short of the distance from joist to footer (if going to ground you will need some 4" concrete blocks to spread the load on the ground). Put the 2x8s so they spread the load on the band joist and the horizontal board and put the 4x4 under it. Then slide two oak shims into the space between the 4x4 and the 2x8 and tap them till everything is really tight. One 4x4 next to each column (on each side at the corner) ought to be plenty until you get the permanent columns built. Put a second

4x4 on a floor or bottle jack if you need to adjust for any settling.

Steve.

Reply to
SteveF

I think you are saying to nail the 2x8 beneath the band joist and the joist hanger... to spread the load. I like the concept and will do something similar. The only problem is I can't put the 4x4 underneath it because I have to remove the granite footing and pour a new footing first.. either sauna tubes or a form. I prefer the form. You may have seen the footings..on the link

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I need to make a support that gives me total access to the area beneath the sill without the support resting on the space beneath it. I figured some sort of A-frame setup would give me more room to work with.

I had also thought of supporting the band joist by using a 6x6 to run perpendicular it. The 6x6 would run from under the porch to outside. It would be supported by a platform with jacks on both sides. A contractor I spoke with said jacks would be too risky. I added a picture of the jack setup I was thinking about to the website. Please see

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the picture, it looks simple. And, doesn't seem that risky to me. But, I don't work with these things all the time.

Reply to
Charlie S.

Got it. One thing that might help is for you to do a rough estimate of the weight of the porch. It's hard to tell the size of the porch from the pictures but I'd bet the whole thing doesn't weigh more than 2 or 3 thousand pounds. A 6 x 6 is overkill. Since you are rebuilding the footers I'd use either A frames made of 4 x 4s with 2 x 6s (two at the top (one on each side), one down as far as you can go and still leave room to work on the footers) attached to the sides with 3" deck screws OR just put a 2 x 6 under the full length of the floor joists about 2 foot back from the band joist and then support with vertical 4 x 4s on maybe every third joist. Option 2 is a little tricky as you need to see how the load from the wall is transferred down the wall. If they built the floor joist structure and then put down some substantial wood for the floor so that the wall can be carried by the floor joists this would work. If the floor structure isn't very substantial, like if they used 1 x 4s, then the load might break off the edge of the floor and option 2 won't work.

Aren't older houses fun?!

Steve.

Reply to
SteveF

Sorry for the late response. I didn't realize you replied. Thanks for your help! I am confused by what you are describing.... could you elaborate more. I'm practically non-spacial. "A frames made of 4x4s." In other words all the / , \\ , --.parts of the A would be made of 4x4's. After this I lose you.

"with 2x6s (two at the top (one on each side), etc"

2x6s at the top, Do you mean running flat and parallel with the band and hanging joist? If so, why not one long 2x6 that runs the length of the band? What's attached to the sides? Sides of what? How? (Sorry, it's not your fault I have a difficult time visualizing.)

Option 2

Reply to
Charlie S.

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