I'm replacing a JennAir stove. Simple enough wiring; 220v blk + red, white neutral, metal flex conduit. Now, the new stove has a green ground lead bolted to stove frame, but the old one didn't.
What to do with it? Ignore it? Tie to metal conduit? That would of course be redundant...
It's fed by 3 rather large stranded wires (#8 or bigger); 2 hots and neutral in metal flex conduit. The stove itself has smallish #12 or so power lines;
2 hot and neutral. The green chassis ground is large (#8).
Thanks, all I saw was a schematic which unfortunatley didn't say "ignore chassis ground lead in retrofit installations" ;) . I'll give 'em a call.
It should have directions for installation with a 3 wire outlet. If not, contact the manufacturer for instructions. (Basically, you connect the frame to the neutral and ignore the ground; but follow the instructions. They know better than me.)
WRONG WRONG WRONG.
The frame connects to *ground*. NOT neutral.
Indeed.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
Tie it to the metal conduit, or to the [presumably] metal box that the conduit terminates in. If there's room in the conduit, for additional safety you could pull a separate ground wire through the conduit, and tie that to the ground lead of the stove as well.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
The standard has changed. As noted check with the manufacturer.
Are you just being obnoxious, or are you actually confused? Since there are only three wires (two hots and a neutral), how could the frame go to the ground? Or are you obnoxiously claiming that the third wire, which on my cable is called an "uninsulated neutral", is actually a ground?
Neither one. You're the one who's confused, and I'm attempting to correct the misinformation you're dispensing. The equipment frame should NEVER be connected to neutral when there is a ground available.
Obviously by connecting it to the metal conduit that the OP said the wires run through.
Nothing of the sort. The metal conduit is the ground. You advised him to connect the frame to the neutral. That's a violation of the NEC, and it's dangerous.
What kind of cable do you have, where the bare wire is called an "uninsulated neutral"? If it's Romex, be aware that the NEC has prohibited using the uninsulated conductor in NM cable as a neutral for a *long* time -- that came out in the 1986 NEC, IIRC.
On my planet, bare wires in sheathed cables are called "equipment grounding conductors". If you have three wires in a cable, two insulated and one bare, you have an insulated hot, an insulated neutral, and an uninsulated ground (in the case of a 120V circuit) or two insulated hots, an uninsulated ground, and NO neutral (in the case of a 240V circuit).
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
Just call it "the grounded wire" and don't get sucked into the ground vs. neutral argument. One an old 3-wire 240/120 circuit, the wire is doing dual duty as a ground and a neutral. The stove should have directions for connecting to such a circuit.
Is the old stove wired directly to a junction box, or does the cable come out of the wall and terminate in the stove chassis, or is there a big ugly brown receptical that it plugs into?
Bob
Of course the frame should not be connected to the neutral when there is a ground available, but he said no ground was available. Don't you bother to read the OP before answering? You have just hit my killfile. (Common courtesy would be for you to do the same...)
Here are the instructions from Jennair:
"The neutral of this unit is grounded to the frame through the green grounding wire. If used on new branch-circuit installations (1996 NEC), mobile homes, recreational vehicles, or in an area where local codes prohibit grounding through the neutral conductor, untwist or disconnect the green wire and connect the green wire to ground in accordance with local code. Connect the white neutral to the service neutral."
Which is very strange as the green wire was just dangling free (other end bolted to frame) when I opened the package; it was no where near the white neutral - and obviously never was.
Number B. ;) The flex conduit comes out of the wall.
As the metal conduit serves as ground, I'm just going to tie it there. But since the wire is also bolted to the same metal box I am connecting the conduit, it will electrically serve no purpose.
No, it shouldn't, as doing so is no longer permitted by the NEC.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
The original post said no such thing. He said the _old_stove_ did not have a ground lead. He didn't say that there was no ground available.
Oh, this is rich, coming right on the heels of your last [incorrect] statement. Obviously I *did* read it, and, equally obviously, I read it more carefully than you did.
It doesn't bother me at all that you've killfiled me; I frankly don't care if you notice it or not when I point out your flawed electrical advice. All I'm concerned about is that *other* people notice it, so they don't make the mistake of thinking that you know what you're talking about.
I have no intention of killfiling you in return, because you dispense incorrect and dangerous electrical advice. As long as you continue to do so, I will continue to point out your errors.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
Yeh, the instruction implies the green wire connects to the neutral somewhere, but you say it doesn't. Okay. If you have a continuity tester, test the green wire to the white wire and see if they are actually connected somewhere, just out out of curiosity. The green wire has to be attached to the neutral, either at the junction box or at the neutral wire. I can't see why it matters where. When you are done, test voltage from voltage from a hot to the frame, if you have a volt meter, just to be sure it is connected.
How can you say that? The instruction _explicitly_ says the green wire connects to the _ground_.
What part of "connect the green wire to ground" did you not understand?
Toller, you need to stop giving out electrical advice, because you flat don't know what you're talking about.
The green wire is supposed to be attached to the GROUND. Not the neutral. Just like it says in the instructions he quoted.
Did you even read the post you responded to?
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
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