Replacement screws for a GE panel

Page 2 of 3  
trader_4 was thinking very hard :

It occurred to me that there might be a different suggestion or maybe even a code for nursing homes or hospitals where oxygen tents might be expected. I looked for hospital grade receptacles orientation and found this which seems to confirm my suspicions.
http://communities.leviton.com/thread/1448
Not an authoritative answer, but perhaps the reason for many professionals to do it that way by default.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 at 7:29:21 AM UTC-4, FromTheRafters wrote:

It's obviously not very authoritative because it's wrong.
"if you look at any GFCI receptacle you will notice the orientation of the writing is with the ground up."
I took me 10 secs to disprove that. I just looked at the closest one, in a bathroom. It has lettering twice, for "test", "reset", etc. one set upside down from the other so it can be installed either way. Then I went downstairs and the one in my master bath has the GFCI verticle, but receptacles that are part of it are sideways, with the ground pin on the left and the lettering is set up to accommodate that. At least I assume that's the "writing" that they are referring to. So then I figured maybe something has changed and new ones are marked like they say. So, where better to look than the Leviton website for their products:
http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/SectionDisplay.jsp?section7683&minisite251
The current Leviton ones are marked just like mine, to be used in either direction. So, whoever wrote that reply doesn't know WTF they are talking about.
"Which brings up a concern that 90 percent of all plugs that are made for devices are designed to have the ground down."
I agree with that, but obviously it's not a problem here in my world because I can't recall seeing a GFCI installed ground pin up. Once in a blue moon I see a receptacle upside down, but not often. But it sure would be a good idea for people to figure all this out, before they go mucking with it on some theory. I doubt there is any evidence of people dying, getting injured, buildings burning down, because they are installed ground pin down. If you had enough cords that work better going in ground pin down being used the other way, I wouldn't be surprised that would create more problems. For example the flat kind, put in upside down, and the cord coming partially out from cord movement, people hitting it, etc.
"For safety sake in a hospital where an oxygen rich atmosphere exist you will want to go with the standard practice of most electricians and engineers of having the ground up"
Not clear what they mean here by "standard practice". Do they mean that it's standard practice in a hospital where oxygen rich atmospheres exist? Or do they mean it's standard practice of most electricians period. It's the kind of wording that drives DerbyDad bonkers and I agree here it's not clear.

It's consistent reasoning with what others have brought up here. But it's also a good example of what happens when folks like those on the Leviton website go off half-cocked and why it's better to have consistent, national codes and practices to the extent possible.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 at 8:49:36 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
..snip...

At least someone gets me. ;-)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
trader_4 formulated on Tuesday :

Here is a hospital grade right angle plug. Notice the 'apparently expected' orientation.
http://www.interpower.com/cgi-bin/ic.cgi/p80form.p?w_part 030270A
Everywhere I've looked, I see no indication of NEC code about 'ground up' orientation, but plenty of local practice examples can be found.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Oren formulated on Tuesday :

There's this also, notice the writing (which wouldn't be visible behind the escutcheon).
http://www.ul.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/ul_HospitalGradeReceptacles.pdf
Anyway, none of these observations really mean anything. If some electrician tells you it's code, ask him for the chapter and verse so that you can inform the internet. :)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 at 1:24:34 PM UTC-4, FromTheRafters wrote:

So in that Leviton thread where they said the standard practice of electricians to put them in ground pin up, they probably meant that it's the standard practice for "hospitals". I wonder if there is a hospital grade GFCI and that's what they were referring to when they said you could look at any GFCI and it's labeled to go in ground pin up?
Never mind. Just looked at Leviton and their hospital grade GFCI and it's marked like other GFCI, so it can go in either way.
http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/SectionDisplay.jsp?sectionX994
But they do show them ground pin up, mostly.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
We lived in Germany a few years back.
All plugs and outlets are designed so the conductors are completely covered long before they make contact.
That seemed a more efficient way to do it.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
trader_4 was thinking very hard :

That's possible, since it was about hospital grade receptacles, but as you stated and DerbyDad03 wholeheartedly agreed, it wasn't clear. It would have been better for the writer to have been explicit rather than to rely on something only implied in context.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I was taught ground-up orientation helps prevent inadvertent shorts that may occur when the plug is not completely inserted and something metal falls across the blades.
I don't believe NEC requires a specific orientation.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 06 Sep 2016 18:01:48 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

Insering a right angle plug into a "ground up" outlet puts a lot of strain on the connection - virtually all "right angle" plugs assume the "conventional" ground down orientation.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 at 9:53:03 AM UTC-5, FromTheRafters wrote:

That one could be reversible, not totally sure?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
FromTheRafters posted for all of us...

Oxygen tents? You have been watching too many old movies. They now have nasal cannulas, face masks and CPAP.
Also this topic seems to come up every 6 months or so and still the BS ensues...
--
Tekkie

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Tue, 06 Sep 2016 20:47:46 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

Next time I'm at the VA for someone, I'll try to take pictures of what can happen if you smoke or have a flame near one of those devices. While they don't always ignite, sometimes, they do. When they do, the results usually aren't good.
--
MID: <nb7u27$crn$ snipped-for-privacy@boaterdave.dont-email.me>
Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Monday, September 5, 2016 at 11:56:32 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:



nce

n site

d

t or wrong. We had a state inspector/engineer who said we had to remove a b lock wall that supported an over-hang at a back entrance. Fire Code says th e roof has to be 4 ft or more to require sprinkler coverage...this was 3 ft . My regional maintenance supervisor did not want to fight it! We contracte d to have a tubular pillar put in. That engineer became the chief engineer for the state! (Yes, I know this is fire code and not electrical code)

t

es

n

...all you ever seem to do is repeat yourself...blah, blah, bablah! That ma kes you the anal idiot.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 at 8:31:05 AM UTC-4, bob_villa wrote:

do

gh

rence

ven site

I'd


ght or wrong. We had a state inspector/engineer who said we had to remove a block wall that supported an over-hang at a back entrance. Fire Code says the roof has to be 4 ft or more to require sprinkler coverage...this was 3 ft. My regional maintenance supervisor did not want to fight it! We contrac ted to have a tubular pillar put in. That engineer became the chief enginee r for the state! (Yes, I know this is fire code and not electrical code)

r

n't

ke

cles

ion

t

makes you the anal idiot.
Sometimes I have to because village idiots like you just can't comprehend.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 at 7:51:35 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:

o do

high

ference

even site

d I'd

ou


right or wrong. We had a state inspector/engineer who said we had to remove a block wall that supported an over-hang at a back entrance. Fire Code say s the roof has to be 4 ft or more to require sprinkler coverage...this was 3 ft. My regional maintenance supervisor did not want to fight it! We contr acted to have a tubular pillar put in. That engineer became the chief engin eer for the state! (Yes, I know this is fire code and not electrical code)

ver

idn't

make

tacles

ation

n

hat

it

t makes you the anal idiot.

.
I comprehend you have a mental problem...
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Mon, 05 Sep 2016 20:55:37 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

I didn't intend to imply any NEC code change when I wrote the initial statement describing the stupidity (just my own personal opinion) of the local code in several places I've been in my little 'burg' of TN/VA. Sorry for not making that absolutely clear in the initial post.
Btw, if you ever get the chance to visit Mountain City and/or New Tazwell, pass. Everything closes at 9pm around there. Can't even find a nice tasty burger when you're done working for the day if you don't make it someplace before 9pm (est time)
And both places look like something from a time capsule sealed up in the 1950s. [g]

It depends on what you define an area as. I work in TN/VA.. so...
I said 'some' as depending on what state/city/county I'm doing work in, I may not have to put the outlets ground pin up. When we grab the permits, we do a local code check to see if that state/city/county specifically wants them up, or, doesn't care. And, we act accordingly. Whenever possible.

I do. I also know that even if i'm right on something, I'm not going to argue with the inspector. Him Big Chief/, I little indian. I know my place.

If I do post about something wonky concerning electrical code and I can't find anything from NEC covering it, I will specify local code in the future. I don't know for sure that they (the inspector) couldn't pull something out of their arse if they wanted to do so, I don't press the issue. Especially when the inspector is already in a bad mood from another job site unrelated to mine.
--
MID: <nb7u27$crn$ snipped-for-privacy@boaterdave.dont-email.me>
Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Fri, 02 Sep 2016 15:57:31 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

Damn. Whoever wired that panel along with the idiot who used that screw, shouldn't be allowed anywhere near them in the future. I see what looks to be neutral, ground, and two hot legs, against the right side and bottom of the panel. Hmm.. another smaller wire mebbe and/or some insulation at the bottom as well. Either way, it looks like shit.
--
MID: <nb7u27$crn$ snipped-for-privacy@boaterdave.dont-email.me>
Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 18:51:19 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster

Grind?? What's a diagonal cutter for? My dad broke the handles opff a few trying to trim screws that were too big or too hard. He generally kept a few notched ones (made by believing someone else when they said the power was off) for that kind of use. (worked pretty good as wire strippers too)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 9:57:53 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

t is

in his home when a small plane crashed into his house killing both he, the pilot and the 14 illegal aliens stuffed into every corner of the Cessna 17 2. He was survived by a wife, 2 ex wives, 12 children, 5 dogs, 10 cats, 3 h orses, a herd of zebra and 632 gerbils. The gerbils were so distraught, tha t one by one, they dived into the running garbage disposal in the kitchen s ink. They were very polite and patient, each of them waited for the squeak and grinding noise of the preceding gerbil to stop before diving into the d isposal. It was a real tragedy. 8-(

t have any extra panel screws in my hardware kit on the truck. ^_^

If you cut the head off a nail with dikes, and chuck it in a drill...it wil l cut pretty well. Not the best choice...I think the picture is a "set-up" and not a real life happening. You could probably find thousands of wrong s crews that have never caused a problem. My opinion, and I wouldn't choose a pointed screw for a panel...
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.