Replacement closet flange

I'm trying choose between the 4" Sioux Chief with the three red rubber seals for $22.99
http://www.acehardware.com/search/index.jsp?view=full&kwCatId=&kw=closet%20flange&origkw=closet+flange&f=Taxonomy/ACE/19541496&sr=1
and the Sioux Chief 3" x 4" just above it and to the right for $2.99, that fits into the drain pipe very snugly, but has no seal. Thus I would rely on the wax ring to seal against odors.
I was originally going to go with the one with the red seals, relying on friction to secure it to the drain pipe and to securely anchor the toilet, hoping to avoid drilling into the concrete floor to attach it. But Sioux still recommends attaching it to the floor. So if I have to drill in either case, why not go with the cheaper one?
FWIW, the flange will rest on top of the finished floor.
Thanks,
R1
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(I originally posted this at 12:37, but it never appeared. So here it is again, with a new paragraph that starts with "Another advantage."
I'm trying choose between the 4" Sioux Chief with the three red rubber seals for $22.99
http://www.acehardware.com/search/index.jsp?view=full&kwCatId=&kw=closet%20flange&origkw=closet+flange&f=Taxonomy/ACE/19541496&sr=1
and the Sioux Chief 3" x 4" just above it and to the right for $2.99, that fits into the drain pipe very snugly, but has no seal. Thus I would rely on the wax ring to seal against odors.
I was originally going to go with the one with the red seals, relying on friction to secure it to the drain pipe and to securely anchor the toilet, hoping to avoid drilling into the concrete floor to attach it. But Sioux still recommends attaching it to the floor. So if I have to drill in either case, why not go with the cheaper one?
Another advantage of the cheaper one would be easier to remove if future repairs are needed, since it's not glued to the drain pipe. I don't know how hard it would be to pull out the one with the three seals.
FWIW, the flange will rest on top of the finished floor.
Thanks,
R1
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Reb,

I find the multiple posts to be confusing. Let's be clear though, the cheap one is glued in. It will not be easy to remove. The one with the red seals might be easy to remove.
Dave M.
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On 9/24/2014 7:08 PM, David Martel wrote:

My original post was attempted at 12:37. Usually they appear within a minute. When it hadn't appeared by 1:20, I figured it was simply lost in internet heaven; thus the second post.
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In typed:

That has also happened to me in the past and it resulted in me posting the same thing twice thinking the first one didn't go through. But, you indicated that it was a re-post so no harm done.
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Rebel,
It has no seal between the old pipe and the flange because you are supposed to "glue" it with solvent. It's not just a tight fit. So you'll need to buy the flange, some solvent, a wax ring, and the hold down bolts. I'm not going to look up all of the prices but I'm thinking that this flange is going to run about $15 as opposed to the $22 kit. I like the flange rather than the kit.
Dave M.
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On 9/24/2014 1:27 PM, David Martel wrote:

Just to illustrate how Ace scams you: Go to their store and you can buy just the flange for $19.99, without the kit. Don't really need the kit because the wax ring and mounting bolts come with the toilet.
Same flange (no wax or bolts) at Home Depot is $16.78.
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On Wednesday, September 24, 2014 4:53:16 PM UTC-4, Rebel1 wrote:

It looks to me like they are two different products for two different applications. As David said, the $3 one is designed to be glued to ABS or PVC waste pipe. It's the conventional solution.
The $22 one force fits with those seals *inside* the waste pipe. It's for use where you have cast iron or lead. I don't see why it would be used with plastic pipe, where you can glue the $3 one on.
And in any case, neither of these, nor anything similar, is designed to anchor the toilet. The toilet needs to be anchored with two bolts to the floor. Otherwise it will rock and you will have problems.

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On 9/24/2014 5:04 PM, trader_4 wrote:

The label on the $22 one says "Pushes into 4" cast iron, PVC or ABS pipe." And I like the idea of easier future removal. To remove the old glued flange, I had to make several vertical cuts through its walls and chisel it away from the drain pipe. Really came out fairly easy once I tried this approach.

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Rebel1 posted for all of us...
I may not have read all messages.

I don't think it is a "scam" They have different cost structures and business models. I can go to Ace 1.3 miles away or Lowes 5.8 or HD 7.2 I can be in & out of Ace before the eta of Lowes. I also get 10% off because I know the owner and buy everything there. I can ask questions and get answers rather than blank stares but everyones experiences are different.
Also, since I am posting I believe there was a bit that fit over PVC and shaved the remnants of the old fitting off.
--
Tekkie

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I have an Ace, a Menards, and a Home Depot each about a mile from where I l ive. For everyday stuff, I go to Menards, then Home Depot, and then finall y Ace if the first two stores don't have what I'm looking for.
If it is an unusual item, I just skip Menards and Home Depot and go right t o Ace. They may not have what I need, but the folks there are knowledgeabl e and can offer advice on substitutes and work-arounds. I have HD stock, an d their service is somewhat better the past couple of years, but the floor staff just isn't into home repair maintenance stuff where the ACE folks alw ays seem to know what I am talking about when I need something out of the o rdinary.
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On 9/24/2014 11:50 PM, snipped-for-privacy@sbcglobal.net wrote:

But you have them as #3 on the buy list. Seems to me they should be rewarded
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Yeah the big box stores play fair and square. Right.
I wanted some white thinset, stopped by Lowes yesterday. A clerk actually appeared, asked what I needed and then said he had a bag that had been opened for a couple of bucks less, I said fine.
On my way out I noticed another stack of white thinset for a couple of bucks less than the discounted one. True, the copy on the bag was slightly different but they were the same thing.
IOW, two stacks of the same thing, ten feet apart, one stack 50% more than the other.
--

dadiOH
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Rebel1;3288174 Wrote: >

> right for $2.99, that fits into the drain pipe very snugly, but has no > seal.

Rebel:
If I wuz you, I would phone some of the plumbers and plumbing companies in your area and ask which replacement toilet floor flange they prefer to use. Plumbers tend to be very practical people, and if they prefer the Oatey Twist-N-Set replacement floor flange, there's a good reason for it. The Oatey also runs in the $15 to $20 range. Don't kid yourself into thinking that they don't use the Souix Chief simply because they're unaware of it.
In a case like this, where the labour involved in replacing the flange is vastly more than the cost of materials, I wouldn't care one bit about whether the floor flange I used cost $15 more or $15 less. Buy what works best based on the opinions of the plumbers in your area. Or, go to any plumbing wholesaler, explain the situation you have with your floor flange, and ask which replacement floor flange plumbers buy most often to do the repair.
Also, I would be concerned that those red rubber seals might be a problem to remove from the toilet drain pipe in future. I can envision a situation where you pull the flange up, but the rubber seals remain inside the toilet drain pipe.
And, make sure that the wax seal you use has a plastic insert in it. The purpose of that plastic insert in toilet wax seals is to prevent the wax from oozing INWARD when you're squashing the seal by bolting the toilet bowl down to the floor. You don't want the wax to ooze inward because then there's a much greater liklihood that blobs of that wax are going to end up inside your drain piping, and it might cause problems with your drain piping afterward.
And ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS use a magnet to check that any metal screws, nuts or bolts you use are either solid brass or stainless steel, both of which are non-magnetic. (Some stainless steels are magnetic, but the kinds of stainless steels used to make fasteners are either non-magnetic or very weakly magnetic.) There are some companies out there that provide brass plated steel screws for use in toilet installations and other wet areas, and that just creates real problems for people down the road when those fasteners rust solid to each other and need to be cut off to be removed. This is another area where the cost of the materials you use are a pitance compared with the labour involved in the project.
--
nestork


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On Thursday, September 25, 2014 10:06:28 AM UTC-4, nestork wrote:

Boy, you have balls. You're going to do the job yourself and have the nerve to call a pro and ask how to do the job? What's next? Ask if you can borrow their tools too?
>Plumbers tend to be very practical people,
And being very practical, they will probably tell you where to go.
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Wow! It's a whole 2 dollars less, but you don't get the wax ring and mounting bolts. Maybe that's why it's $2 less, do you think?
Oh, they come with the toilet, but did it occur to you that not everyone is buying a toilet, some people are keeping their old toilet but want to replace the wax ring, because the recommendation is to replace it every time the toilet is removed. Some want to replace the mounting bolts because the old ones are rusty and maybe ruined when removed. How much do the bolts and ring cost if bought separately. More than $2 I'll bet. So the kit saves the buyer money if he needs #2.01 worth of those things.
And if you don't want to buy the kit online, to to another website and buy something equivalent but not a kit.
They're not hiding anything.
Do you even know what scam means?

Oooh wee. Save $3.21. But I like Ace Hardware. They have a lot of things HD doesn't have. From my own experience, HD doesn't have a single square U-bolt. Ace has10 different sizes. HD had not a slngle long #1 phillips screwdriver. Ace had two brands. I'll bet HD doesn't have Lexel caulk. The first Ace had it in clear and the second in both clear and white. (That was today.) So if some things are more expensive, a) it doesn't mean other things arent' cheaper, and b) it's still worth it not to make trips to two stores.
Better service at both Aces also. I wish the nearest one wasn't 5 times as far away as the nearest HD. 5 miles instead of 1.
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