Replace Halogen Bulbs With LEDs?

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Well, it is now cheaper to build Toyota Corolla and RAV4 vehicles in Canada tha in Japan, and if the standard of living in China improves much at all, it will soon be the case for Chinese production as well. I heard from a tool importer that much of the "chinese" power tools are actually assembled onboard ship. They travel from port to port picking up parts in the far east, assembling them en route to North America. Warranty returns are repaired onboard ship and are returned on the next round. He said the same was true of many small appliances - basically "factory ships" Manufacturing, warehousing, and shipping all in one place.
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On 12/08/2013 07:55 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Hi Clair,
Fascinating! All that transportation time with nothing to do. Now filling a need.
My Subi Forrester is American made with Japanese management. United Auto Workers union to boot. I love the thing. Very high quality. (I could do without the rubber band timing chain, but they have since gone to a direct drive.)
On the other hand American made, American managed cars ... (Will never own another one again.)
-T
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On Friday, December 6, 2013 10:13:54 PM UTC-5, westom wrote:
e: > Then the typical LED recessed light that one buys should > have specs and install instructions that say airflow past > some heatsink is required. Yet there are plenty of them from > the major manufacturers where: ... In optics engineering magazines were numerous articles on overheating of both CFL and LED bulbs. Fixtures designed for incandescent bulbs do not need sam e airflow. CFL bulb life expectancy tends to be shorter when the bulb is po sitioned so that electronics are above the glowing gas. LEDs radiate their heat into a heatsink that is ineffective if airflow does not exist in the f ixture. Both problems seriously diminish bulb life expectancy. A problem no t discussed at the consumer level. Similar problems with sodium bulb orient ation were not discussed at the consumer level decades previously. LED bulb s (such as those that won the X-prize) need airflow over the heatsinke. LED s at that wattage have heat problems not found in LEDs at lesser power leve ls.
Then it should be easy to provide us with the spec sheet, the install instructions for the typical residential recessed LED lights, like the 50W equivalent ones the OP is talking about, where it talks about the requi red airflow and how to achieve it.
I've looked at a lot of them and again, they were rated for direct contact with insulation and many were ASTM certified airtight between the living space and attic. For those 50W equivalent, you're talking about a whopping 9 watts of heat.....
Can there be thermal problems with some because they are designed incorrect ly? Sure. But that doesn't equate into an airflow requirement, special install considerations for most of them. And again, if it's true, provide us with the spec sheet for a 50W recessed that says you have to provide airflow and how to achieve it.
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wrote:

E suspect many of my LED failures are heat related as they are in eyeball bots in a high suspended ceiling (the 12 volt ones) and infaitly closely shrouded sockets on some of the 120 volt ones - although there most of the ones that have failed have free air access to the LED heat sinks. Suspecting it is the driver electronics failing, I have dissasembled a few and the LEDs themselves are, for the most part, still good. They fail in 3 ways - all LEDs dim or all Leds flashing on the 12 volts, and all LEDs flashing ,or dim with one out on the 120 volt. All dim or all flashing have generally been circuit failures, but several of the earlier 120s had LED element failures (dim with one element out, or totally dead) These have 3 or 4 3 watt Cree LEDs.
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On Monday, December 2, 2013 3:43:00 PM UTC-8, Gary wrote:

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Recessed lighting was originally used in stores to light the merchandise wi thout having to shine into the eyes of the customers and cause glare. The l ight bulbs that were used in these fixtures were spot (not flood) light bul bs which usually have only a ten degree of light distribution. People liked the aspect of non glaring ceiling lights so much that recessed lighting ca me to be widely used in residents as well. 1. Does your electrician know where to get a hold of spot (not flood) type LED light bulbs for under $55.00 each? If he does please let me know becaus e I would like to get some too. 2. What is the light distribution of these LED light bulbs that your electr ician is recommending? Is it ten degrees? 3. Will you mind if you completely defeat the original design and purpose o f your recessed lighting?
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com writes:

Try Costco. I've purchased both spot and flood profile LED R-30 (and BR-30) bulbs there, for quite reasonable prices.
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On Tuesday, December 3, 2013 2:18:16 PM UTC-8, Scott Lurndal wrote:

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On Tuesday, December 3, 2013 2:18:16 PM UTC-8, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Any beam spread of more than 22 degrees is considered a flood light bulb. The smallest beam spread of the LEDs on the Costco website are 38 degrees which is considered a flood and not a spot light bulb.
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mike holmes says led bulbs do not attract insects, like mosquitoes.
this is a excellent reason to use led lamps outdoors, since the lamps are near the doors, in the summer insects get in.
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A little additional information from the OP
Our house is in the Costa Rican mountains. Our climate is such that we need neither air conditioning nor heat. Our electric bill is $180/mo which covers lights and the pool pump. There are only two of us and only a few bulbs are on at a time. Cooking and hot water are propane. Ceilings are mostly 15 feet which makes changing bulbs inconvenient. Even with 85 halogen bulbs, the chandeliers, and the wall sconces the house is under lit. One advantage of changing to LEDs is we can go above the 50W equivalent and get a little more light.
Thanks, Gary
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sounds like more windows/skylights would be a good (partial) solution. as far as converting to LEDs you have to factor in the cost of the conversion to 12V (and how are you providing that 12V)
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On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 12:48:07 -0800, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"

Lots of self contained 120 volt LED "bulbs" - and nothing magic about 12 volts anyway -LEDs have forward drops in the 3 to 5 volt range depending on colour / chemistry.
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On 12/04/2013 04:23 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Hi All,
To put my 2 cents in, I am an Electrical Engineer:
Halogen bulbs run very, very hot. I my opinion, they are a fire hazard and I would not have them in my house.
Compact fluorescents are cheaper to run, but their run time ratings as a crock of s--- (Home Depot, etc.). They don't last any longer than incandescents and they are way more expensive.
The only company I have found with long lived compact fluorescents are Satco (available from Amazon.com). I use these in my house. If using compact fluorescents, you are still going to be changing them a lot. I have seen special poles with grabber on the end for changing high ceiling lights. Plan on a few falling and breaking, spreading small amounts of mercury all over the place. (You are probably in more danger from the broken glass.)
LED lamps run cool to the touch. A good thing. Heat is the enemy of all things electronic. And LED's are the cheapest to run.
The dirty ugly secret about "white" LED lights (not the colored ones) is that you have to heat sink off heat or they will become regular diodes and loose their ability to create light. So, you can't put them in a hot environment without ventilation to bleed off the heat. How hot is your ceiling and does it have circulation.
LED's are also temperamental about having clean power. Your voltage needs to within parameter and no spikes. So, the run times advertised for LED's are only under the most ideal conditions.
So it is all about trade offs. Me personally, I'd ditch the halogens and go LED. And make sure I had a ceiling fan.
-T
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Halogen bulbs, in the same envelope, run no hotter than standard bulbs. I love the things. You can't get a better light to work by.

They also take an age to come up to full brightness. I'm usually in the room and out, before they'd come up to full brightness. They do have a place though (a generic replacement for incandescents isn't it).

1000bulbs.com carries Satco, too. Good prices.

If you buy the run-time specs.

That's true of all LEDs. The LEDs themselves are very small and do get extremely hot. That heat has to be moved somewhere else or they'll cook.

Not any more so than CFLs. It's the electronics that's the problem. They're fairly similar.

I wouldn't. Not yet. LEDs aren't ready for prime time yet and Halogen's light is perfect.
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On 12/04/2013 06:04 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Hi Krw,
It is the white ones that go far sooner than the colored ones. I found this out the hard way running colored and white in several circuits I did not properly heat sink. All the white ones shorted out.
When I was talking about about heat, I did not mean the pin point light source. I meant your hand.
-T
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Power is power. Abuse any of them and they'll fail. As you well know, semiconductors aren't forgiving.

??? Heat is heat.
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On 12/04/2013 06:04 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

If you don't mind burning your house down. The light is pretty though.
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Utter nonsense. You snipped the part where I said that halogen lamps aren't any hotter than standard bulbs (cooler, actually), in the same envelope.

It is. I'll keep it.
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On 12/4/2013 6:58 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Ok, a watt is a watt. But, aren't the envelopes radically different for the same wattage in typical consumer applications? And that leads to higher bulb surface temperatures for halogen. First hit on wikipedia talks about how the hotter surface temperature is required for the halogen cycle to work.

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Yes and no. There are "naked" halogen bulbs that do get quite hot but they're really no big deal if you take some small precautions. There are also halogen bulbs that have identical envelopes to those of standard incandescent bulbs. They come in the standard A series envelopes, reflector spots and floods, and many other standard shapes, intended as "tungsten" replacements. The light from these is superior to standard bulbs.
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