Removing towel rack from tile

[DerbyDad03]

Color me lazy, but without a link, I'm not troubling myself to go looking for them.

[Tony Sivori]

Your newsreader is broken. The photos are fine. She posted a zip file of

12 jpgs.

[gpsman]

They were typically installed with grout, pretty sturdy.

I suspect a sharp horizontal rap by hand would dislodge them, but if not I'd go with a rubber hammer. -----

- gpsman

[Tony Sivori]

I'd say continue the discussion here. Binary groups are for binaries (files), and discussion groups are for discussion.

You obviously have removed the rack, and now have two tiles in need of replacement, so what is the question?

By the way, I have a similar situation from a mid 1950's built house. Consider yourself fortunate to have the white tiles with salmon border. I have a room full of hideous green tiles with a white border. I warn guests to consider eye protection before entering the bathroom. :-)

I even have an identical towel rack, although I like having a towel rack in the shower.

[mkirsch1]

There WILL be holes in the tile. The rack has to be mounted to the wall mechanically somehow. You can't glue directly to the surface of tile. They might have adhesives that would do it now, but not in 1950.

[mkirsch1]

No, it is not. There was no glue around in the 1950s that would stick to the surface of a ceramic tile.

[chaniarts]

there may be holes in the back of the rack, causing the cement or thinset used to set the tiles to key into it, locking the rack onto the wall. that was the most common way to mount things like this. if it was original equipment, it would be uncommon to mount it mechanically onto a tiled wall.

[DerbyDad03]

re: "There WILL be holes in the tile."

No, there may not be. Read my earlier post where cement was used to hold both a towel rack and soap dish to my tiled walls. The house was built in the 50's.

These types of towel rack holders did not required any holes to be drilled into the tile. Look closely, there are 2 different styles of towel rack holders. There's even some soap dishes in the background, none of which required holes in the tile. Holes in the wall, yes, but not in the tile.

[David Nebenzahl]

On 12/23/2010 9:52 AM [e-mail] spake thus:

You're not following the thread very well.

The statement you responded to, "This one is glued onto tile" referred to a link someone had posted earlier--not to the OP's situation.

The OP's towel holder is NOT screwed into the wall; it's grouted right in, like many such accessories were done (and still can be). When I tiled my bath in the one house I owned and sold, I grouted a soap holder in. No fasteners of any kind: just cut a hole for it in the green drywall, smushed thinset onto it along with the surrounding tile, then later grouted around it.

[Heather Mills]

Sorry. Here are some links:

Here's one end of the towel rack. I just started chipping away at the cement.

I wasn't getting anywhere with that, so I put a cutoff disk in the Dremel and tried cutting the end off on the suggestion that it was probably hollow. I didn't take any photos of that step. I also didn't get anywhere with that and concluded that it wasn't hollow after all.

Next I used the cutoff disk to cut away the cement behind the rack. I only got maybe 3/16" in. I then gave up and tried tapping it with a hammer. To my surprise, the whole thing popped off leaving a hole in the tile.

The rack turned out to be solid porcelain and very heavy. It had a post that wentinto the wall, which broke fro the hammer blows. You can see where I tried to cut through.

This photo shows that the tiles are 4.25" square.

The other end of the post was loose and fell back into the wall.

Should I patch that hole before replacing the tile?

I went to a couple of local tile dealers. No one could match the tile exactly. One of them said that the glaze finish is what is called "crackled". It doesn't show up well in the photos, but it has a texture similar to a wall painted with a roller.

I bought 3 different tiles that are similar, but none are a good match. The other thing is that the new tiles are less than half as thick as the old ones:

Remaining questions:

1. Can I just use more thinset to set the tile or do I need to build it up a bit first?
2. Does anyone know of a good source for replacement tiles?

Thanks

[hrhofmann]

More thinset should be fine. I like the idea of using a contrasting tile for replacement, it make look like you did it deliberately instead of patching. If you could find a couple of other places in the area/room to replace a few tiles, even if they are now still perfectly ok, you could make it look like a definite pattern of contrasting tiles, and maybe no one would even know they are actually patches.

[Heather Mills]

I thought of that, but getting these two out was a lot of work. Each one probably took at least an hour and several cutoff disks. I think I'd need to replace at least 5-6 others to make anything resembling an intentional pattern. That sounds like 2 more days and a lot of dust and mess. I have it all cleaned up now.

I did find some tiles that are good enough. I'll look around, but if I don't find anything better, I'll just go with what I have.

Do you know of a good source for replacement tiles? Maybe something online? I'd probably have to mail them a fragment.

[Heather Mills]

Yessir. I posted links to photos in another reply.

1. Do I need to repaid the hole in the sheetrock where the post was?
2. The new tiles are much thinner then the old ones. Can I just use more thinset or do I need to build it up some first?
3. Does anyone have any suggestions for where I might find tiles that match better?

[David Nebenzahl]

On 12/23/2010 8:56 PM Heather Mills spake thus:

I would say forget about getting them online; this is one thing that doesn't lend itself to that kind of commerce.

Dunno where you are, but if you're in or near a good-sized metro area, chances are good that there are several tile vendors that might have something close to what you want, and you also might look for recycled/reclaimed building material supply places that might have boxes of old tile that might match.

[DerbyDad03]

As I said earlier in this thread, when you can't match what you have, coordinate it with something that compliments it.

Perhaps a tile with a pattern that has some of the same colors in it or a hand painted tile from a crafts show or a rough textured tile in a complimentary color.

If you try to match it and "come close" it will look like you tried to match it and missed.

When I pulled my towel rack and soap dish, I actually removed some extra tiles from various spots on the wall and replaced them with a patterned tile so that the three that I *had* to replaced didn't stand out as much. I basically ceated my own design that looked like it belonged there from the start.

[dadiOH]

Just squish in thinset and smooth it out. Doesn't hurt if the thinset goes behind the wallboard. ______________

Let the thinset repair harden then butter your tile with enough thinset (mixed on the stiff side, not runny) so that it will be *slightly* higher than the others. Put the tile in place and use something like a piece of

2x4 to bridge adjacent tiles and push the replacement in so it is level with others. When buttering, stay maybe 1/4" away from the edges so the thinset doesn't squeeze out and fill the joints; if it does, clean out the joint a bit so it won't show when grouted. ____________

There are online places that carry old tiles. Just Google them. Google for "crazed tiles" too. I think it highly unlikely you will find a good match. If $$ is no object, you could have a ceramicist make one; it could be a reasonable match but most likely not perfect.

[HeyBub]

To repeat an earlier suggestion, get a Harbor Freight Multifunction Twitching tool. It will cut through the grout like a hot, petrified fern through fresh scat.

You cut the grout surrounding the target tile and, if the tile doesn't come off by prying, you smash the sucker. Then you can insert your decorative replacement tile.

This, of course, results in the GROUT not matching, which, in turn, generates a whole new problem.

Now to repeat an earlier suggestion: I'd get a decorative shower curtain and call it good. As an alternative, install your new tiles and paint the whole damn shower stall in vivid colors.

Best of luck in all your endeavors.

[Heather Mills]

That sounds like a good plan.

I wouldn't call then "crazed". To me, that means a million little lines -- almost like shattered glass. These are more like a matte finish. At the tile store, they called it "crackled", which doesn't sound right to me, either.

[Tony Sivori]

I am not a tile professional, so I don't know. My guess is that you could probably get away with caulking the hole. If water from the shower did manage to get behind the new tile and into the wall, obviously it would cause major trouble over time.

However I would guess that the towel rack was high enough on the wall that such a problem would be highly unlikely.

I wont even venture a guess on that one.

I tried a Google search for "old stock bath tile". A few possibilities turned up, but I suspect that it will not be easy for you to get an exact match.

You could also try calling local tile supply places and ask if they carry old stock of the appropriate era. If they say no, ask if they know anyone that may carry stock that age.

Does your bath have tile around the entire wall of the bathroom? If so, you might have success in removing two tiles from inside the vanity or from under the sink.

Another possibility is get two decorative tiles that will look acceptable to you, even though they don't match the rest of the tiles.

[Tony Sivori]

Too right.

I'd love to gut my 1950's bath down to the wall studs and subfloor, but I just hate to pry open my wallet for such a large expense. I've settled for replacing the green wall mount sink with a white one, and I plan to have the green tub refinished white in the next month or two. The toilet had already been changed out when I bought the house.