Remove and repair section of old kitchen wall

[Puddin' Man]

'allo,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in the midwest, built in '54, original kitchen.

I need to remove maybe 2 sq. feet of the wall to replace a corroded drain pipe. Wall is ceramic tile in front of traditional plaster on steel lath. After repair of drain, I need to repair wall. Never worked with tile before.

How to do it?

It occurred to me that I *might* be able to cut thru both grout and plaster/lath and remove a square without destroying the tile (if I can come up with the right saw apparati). Might this be practical? If so, how might one *replace* the removed square, permanently mounting it back in the wall?

Or do I bark up the wrong tree? :-)

Any help/advice much appreciated.

Cheers, Puddin'

Pease pudding hot, Pease pudding cold, Pease pudding in the pot Nine days old ...

[roger61611]

ullo yaself !

If the tile is plain old white 4x4, this is a lot easier, if not...

If the tile is something that might be diffifult to match perfectly then the key thing is to save the tile, and you won't do that by prying it up. Everything else can be put back together, and the grout can be matched. It's a messy job in ways.

Seems like you could use something like a Dremel to cut thru the grout and then all the way thru the plaster and lathe, then remove the section. Chip the plaster from the tiles. Fix the pipe. Then attach drywall, shimming if necessary to build it up to be as thick as the plaster. May have to build additional mini-framing onto the studs for the 2x2 piece of drywall, so that it can attach to something. That is, if you take out a 2x2 section and your studs are 16" apart as they should be, that could leave you with an 8" section of drywall just hanging there, so you'd have to jimmy rig something underneath.

Once the drywall is up, prime it (I think), then glue on the tiles, then re-grout.

Viola!

[DanG]

Do not plan on any reuse of the tile. If you really do want to put up with a lot of dust and mess, you could saw the opening with a dry diamond blade on a circular saw or grinder. This could possibly give you a piece to reinstall with caulk at the perimeter. The amount of dust is tremendous.

I think your time would be better served to plan on a decorative cap of some type. Wainscoat? Metal cover? I can't envision a circumstance with the tile wall exposed. I would guess it to be under the cabinet, behind the refrigerator or some other appliance. The drain pipe will be about 18" off the floor.

Perhaps you can pinpoint the intersection of cast iron and sink drain. At this point you could possibly cut a circular hole to access the pipe with another hole at the sink, though it will be difficult to route the pipe out of and into the studs. The circular hole(s) could be capped with a blank escutcheon. This still means dust unless you go to the expense and mess of a wet diamond cut. ___________________________ Keep the whole world singing. . . . DanG

[Puddin' Man]

Plain white/cream, measure about 4 3/8 " square.

If Dremel's got a cutting wheel of the appropriate diameter, and capable of going thru the steel lath.

Definitely an important consideration.

I haven't spec'd the studs yet. 99% sure they are 16" centers. Gotta estimate the pipe juncture, then map maybe 12" in each direction if that'd catch the studs right ...

I cut wood, so shims shouldn't be a problem.

This is helpful. Much thanks.

Puddin'

Pease pudding hot, Pease pudding cold, Pease pudding in the pot Nine days old ...

[jolt]

I assume a basement and cast iron pipe in 1954 contraction.

You can also replace the pipe by cutting it before the last connection to the stack, remove the pipe from this connection then replace with PVC pipe coming up through the floor and cabinet at the rear of the cabinet. If the pipe in the wall is corroded it is possible the remaining pipe to the stack is in similar condition. A little more plumbing involved but you don't have to do major work to the wall.

[Oren]

A Dremel would not be my choice. A grinder as mentioned previously. You could make a plastic tent in the immediate work area to contain the dust. The grinder will make fast work of the lath, etc.

-- Oren

"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."

[Puddin' Man]

I was afeared ...

The dust issue occurred to me. Hulluva mess.

I shoulda mentioned, it's all behind the gas range. Still, I need to put something substantial in the hole.

I can get purty close measuring wall to stack in basement, wall to point in kitchen, height from floor.

I've not worked with a tile cutter and I don't have one ...

About 4" of the copper drain are already exposed under the sink.

Copper drain is 30' long or so. Centers are 16". OD of PVC would be greater than OD of copper? I guess maybe they reamed 2+" holes in the studs?

I'm mostly worried about a plan to fix right now.

Would love to be able to securely mount a substantial removable cover instead of hassling tile replacement, but I got nooooo idea what's available. Suppose maybe I could custom cut/fashion one from wood.

Thanks, Puddin'

Pease pudding hot, Pease pudding cold, Pease pudding in the pot Nine days old ...

[Puddin' Man]

Yeah, it's a roof-vented cast iron stack with lead/oakum joints, installed in 1954.

Lost po' me on part of this.

About 4" of the bad copper pipe is exposed under the sink. There's an elbow there, and the part that joined to PVC was badly corroded. The other 26" of the pipe is behind the wall.

I presently have noooooooooo access to the copper/iron joint. Assume I have to tear hole in wall.

Thx, P

Pease pudding hot, Pease pudding cold, Pease pudding in the pot Nine days old ...

[Puddin' Man]

Might be a bit much for my little $30 Dremel.

Yeah, I've done that with concrete work before.

Prolly lots of sparks. Fire extinguisher handy.

Thx, P

Pease pudding hot, Pease pudding cold, Pease pudding in the pot Nine days old ...

[roger61611]

Crikey, if it's behind the range just plop a wood panel in place of the tiled piece.

Always good to put something substantial in the hole !

[Oren]

Not likely necessary. The lath is easy to cut. If it was exposed now use a pair of tin snips to clip it out.

-- Oren

"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."

[DanG]

Buy a sheet of FRP (fiberglass reinforced panel) and the appropriate cap trim. This stuff is bullet proof, thin, easy to cut and apply (panel adhesive), and looks ok behind the stove. Super easy to wash, etc.

about a $1/SF. Here is a sample, I know you have seen this stuff at commercial restaurants, etc:

They also make a tile version (quite a bit more expensive) the whole world singing. . . . DanG

[jolt]

Abandon the old line and run a new line. If you have a basement to work in, running a new line into the stack should not be difficult. The new line is not run in the wall but up thru the floor ....into the cabinet at a location in the cabinet that will allow enough room to get the trap into the new waste line.

Picture all you connections under the sink, no pipe in the wall. This is how a sink is plumbed if the sinks cabinet is not up against a wall. Quick easy and no work to the wall is required.

[Mark]

Can you get at the area from the other side of the wall and not have to mess with the tile at all? Fixing a pastered wall and re-painting would be a lot less work than having to tackle the tile.

[Puddin' Man]

Wish I could. It's an exterior wall: masonry block behind pipe.

Pease pudding hot, Pease pudding cold, Pease pudding in the pot Nine days old ...