Remote Low Voltage Motion Sensor?

Does anyone make a "wired" motion sensor that can be mounted remotely via a low voltage cable?
I have a few "wireless" motion sensors (made by Carlon), but they do not work very well. Though the sensor itself seems to detect movement, the receiver in the wall switch has a very difficult time picking up the signal. So, I get a lot of false triggering, as well as the light failing to turn on/off.
I would go with a standard wired motion sensor, but the spot where the sensor needs to go is directly over a bank of corner windows. So I can't fish the cable up through the wall. We have vaulted ceilings, so I can't go that route either.
Thus, I was hoping for a sensor with a low voltage cable I could route down along the window trim, to an indoor transformer/relay.
Thanks,
Anthony
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HerHusband wrote:

I don't follow. A standard wired motion sensor operates at low voltage. What exactly is the difference between standard and low voltage motion sensor? I put sensors in my house and ran the wire down the wall. I plan to paint the wire one of these days...
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x10 or radioshack have battery operated wireless motion sensors, it might work. I have one but never tried it.
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m Ransley wrote:

He already has wireless according to his post.
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They may be called "PIRs". Google "alarm equipment" or similar to find vendors. Smarthome.com comes to mind. They usually require 12V DC as provided by alarm systems, and provide a relay contact output.
Bob
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"x10 or radioshack have battery operated wireless motion sensors, it might work. I have one but never tried it. "
I just installed an X10 wireless one. It runs on two AAA batteries. Inside, you just plug in an X10 tranceiver that converts the wireless signal into an X10 signal on the powerline. Then you just use the appropriate module or switch wherever the load is.
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Is this for an alarm system or a light?
Commercial alarm systems typically run on 16.5 vAC so that right there is low voltage. Radio Shack and others probably sell wireless motion detectors that should do what you want. (or wired ones)
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wrote:

Everyone does. I finally realized that your question above is incomplete. You need to add, iiuc, "that will turn the room lights on. Hopefully, it comes as a unit with a standard-style wall switch."
Is that your question?

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mm wrote:

OOOOh. If thats his question :) My mother has spot lights that have motion sensor in them, but are also controlled by the wall switch. Yes the radio shack system has the sensors that can triger certain channels, and you can put certain lights on that channel. I infact have a sensor of that sort that I never used. But I think its indoor only and I think its also wireless.

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Hmm... Any web links? I haven't been able to track these down. All of the "wired" motion sensors I have seen are either built-in to a floodlight assembly, or are designed to wire directly into a 120V line.

OK, I'll clarify.
I have a pair of outdoor porch lights that I want to control via a motion sensor. Because of their appearance, I do not want to use the screw-in type of motion detector.
I want to be able to manually turn the lights on from inside using the standard toggle wall switch. This should override the motion sensor in case I want to sit out at night and read a book or something.
When the toggle switch is off, I want the lights to respond to the motion sensor.
With a standard sensor, this would be easy to implement by wiring the switch and motion sensor in parallel.
A few months ago I picked up a "wireless" motion sensor at Lowes. It consists of a wall switch receiver that wires in, and a remote wireless sensor that runs off batteries. It is made by Carlon, and is NOT X-10 compatible.
After trying several locations for the sensor, the location that works best is above a bank of windows, just under the porch roof, on the corner of the building. This detects movement in the driveway, as well as along our front walk. I know the sensor is detecting our movement, because it glows briefly each time we move around in the driveway.
Unfortunately, the receiver wall switch is not responding to the motion sensor signals. I tried moving the sensor closer, but anything more than a few feet from the switch and it quits working. And, of course, the closer location doesn't detect movement where we need it.
I don't have a problem fishing a cable in for a wired motion detector, but because of the location over the bank of windows, it would be very difficult to get a cable to the sensor. And, because of the window headers, I would have to use a surface mount electrical box.
I could run a length of conduit down the outside corner of the building, but this wouldn't be very attractive, especially since it's the first thing you see when you approach the house.
I looked into the wireless X-10 motion sensors like the Eagle Eye. But, I would need to buy the sensor ($27), an X10 RF receiver ($29), and an X-10 Wall switch ($54). With the results I experienced with my current wireless motion detector, I'm a little hesitant to spend over $100 on a similar system, and not have it work either.
So, I was trying to find a motion sensor that didn't rely on RF or powerline signals, and didn't require a 120V power line run to the sensor.
What I had pictured was a sensor that could mount above the windows, with a small low voltage cable that runs back to the switch, and/or a transformer/relay that I could mount in the crawlspace or something.
Of course, the whole package should cost less than $100, or I might as well save myself the hassle of fishing wires and go with X-10.
Anthony
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wrote:

I don't hunt for weblinks when others can hunt for them themselves. (I'm amazed at how many do this for others, and I think it is nice of them.)

Any burglar alarm distributor sells motion detectors. The names of alarm *makers* used to be Moose, Ademco and some others. Most are still in business. Also many detectors are made by separate companies.
Dual-tec was the first one with dual motion detectors, but I suspect everyone makes them by now. It uses both PIR and iirc ultra-sonic and requires signals from both to set off the alarm. But such caustion wouldn't be necessary if all that will happen is that the porch light will go on. My PIR lights go on with the wind sometimes, and that's ok.

Those are finished products.

They sell porch lights like you want. I have one. They have a built in motion sensor, which only works when the toggle switch is On. One changes from manual to auto mode by flicking the switch in the proper way. (on then off then on, quickly.). It's easier to set to automatic during the darkness or during the light, I forget which. Mine has a brass finish which iirc, I thought was deteriorating after about 8 or 10 years. That is too short, but after a bit of degrading, it didn't get any worse in the next 5 or 10 years. I think. I'll go look at it if you want me to, bu it is almost dark out, so it will have to wait until tomorrow.

You'd need for the sensor to contol a relay that could handle 110v. Those are easy enough to find. You could power the coil in the relay with the same low-voltage power supply, a little black box, that powers the sensor.
All of this is probably less than 50 dollars, although shipping might put it over, especially if you have to buy from two mail order places. (one for the sensor and one for the relay and power supply.) Try mouser.com Maybe they have sensors. There's one other whose name escapes me. Even Radio Shack should have an acceptable relay, although mail order will have greater variety. RS has transformers to, but they seem over priced.
Without extrra fiddling and another relay, this won't have the "power failure means On" feature that some timers and some sensors have, but sometimes that's a good thing.

You'll definitely want to turn off the "glow", which is there for testing. Otherwise, it will be a warning for burglars too, and a target for shotguns.

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wrote:

I should say that my porch light doesn't go on until I am about 6 or 8 feet from the light. I would have liked it to go one when someone got to the gate, which is maybe 30 feet from the light.
But when I walk down another street, I trigger a lot of lights when I am 30 feet away, maybe more.
Mine is adjustable, and I think I adjusted it to the maximum sensitivity. Anyhow, there are street lights here too, and it's never so dark that it's dangerous, so my setting is good enough.
It would be nice if the motion detector were in parallel. They have had "leave your porchlight on nights" and I don't want to fiddle with my automatic, so I don't participate.
But otoh, my light only goes on when it is dark out.
The design I think you are working towards will go on whenever someone is there, even in the daytime. You'll need another sensor to keep it from working during the daytime, if you want that.
The Universal floodlights I have in the back yard have the IR device on a separate post. Although the unit as a whole runs on 110 volts, it's certain that the sensor part doesn't. You could take it apart, extend the wires 50 feet or as needed, (the wires that control the relay that controls the 110volts, and the wires that power the IR part, probably via a step down transformer from the 110 volts) and maybe that would give what all you want.
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"I looked into the wireless X-10 motion sensors like the Eagle Eye. But, I would need to buy the sensor ($27), an X10 RF receiver ($29), and an X-10 Wall switch ($54). With the results I experienced with my current wireless motion detector, I'm a little hesitant to spend over $100 on a similar system, and not have it work either. "
I just installed exactly that X10 system. It works perfectly and cost a lot less than the prices you've listed. There are lots of good vendors selling these items on Ebay. For example, I got a 3 pack of the wall switches for $21, a 3 pack eagle eye motion sensor for $25, and the transceiver for $23, shipping included. The system works fine.
I don't know how long the battery lasts in the motion sensor, that is an open question. Depending on the location, that could be an issue. Also, there is no sensitivity adjustment. The unit is quite sensitive, will pick up motion at least 30 feet away, so be sure there are no trees, bushes, etc waving in the breeze.
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On 2 Feb 2006 15:57:40 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Is it just things waving in the breeze, or can it be the breeze itself? I thought it could be the second, but my biggest testing period was 15 years ago.
I want ed a PIR sensor that would go in my window frame and work when I was away from the house but wouldn't require me to close the window.
Even with a dual tech, I had false alarms. Now, I can't remember if or not I tied up the curtains to keep them from blowing. I sort of think it sometimes went off even when the curtains didn't move.
And outside, there are branches, but I'm not sure how much they have to move if at all.
Anyone know for sure.
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On 2 Feb 2006 15:57:40 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

The collision (X10) problems get worse as system complexity increases. These things can be completely unsuitable when you depend on other X10 devices as well.

and no birds or other warm-blooded animals. Those activate the motion sensors too.
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I'll take a look when I get the chance. Thanks for the pointer.

That was my other concern with the wireless models.
Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.
Anthony
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