Regulations Governing Underground Home Heating Oil Tanks

[JohnnyD]

BS meter now hovering just below the red zone...

They more than likely said that *IF* it was leaking the cost *COULD* escalate to $25k.

[clare]

A house just down the street from a friend of mine was just sold two years ago and they found out there was an undisclosed underground oil tank that had been leaking.( that the seller knew was there, and the realtor didn't ask).The seller's insurance company and the realtor's insurance had to cover the remediation, (not sure who ended up paying what, but the buyer was off the hook) which was over 3 times what the house had sold for. (total remediation cost just over a million) They removed all the soil around the house and shipped it out to a hazardous waste disposal site. They also had to remove soil beyond the property limits towards a local creek. The insurance also had to pay rental accomodation for the year the house was not habitable.

If it was me, I'd have walked away from the deal and left the seller and the broker holding the bag.

[George]

The discussion was about the potential of an underground tank leaking. It does happen and it is expensive to remediate. Since it is a buried tank how is someone supposed to know?

So how much would it cost to dig up and inspect the tank? Who is even going to "certify" an old tank since that would mean they are accepting the liability for it?

It isn't even unheard of for insurance companies to refuse to insure old above ground tanks anymore. Many will not even consider writing coverage if you don't have a recent double wall tank.

[salty]

W-H-O-O-S-H ! ! !

[krw]

In fact, it doesn't matter if it's currently leaking. Insurance companies and banks are worried about future liabilities.

I had an old, empty, tank in the basement (converted to gas seven or eight years before) and the buyer's insurance company had me have it taken out.

[clare]

And REMOVE both the filler and vent pipes!!! Several cases locally where the oil delivery man got the wrong house - one where there was no longer a tank. He finally caught on when he had pumped more oil into the basement than the (missing) tank should have held - - - .

[krw]

mortgage/insurance co

Yes, I'd already done that...

...because the above has happened far more often than people realize.

[Red Green]

" [e-mail]" wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Howdy folks. Back in VT from NC...again

Just removed a 275 from the basement today. Hired a guy for this one and played helper because his helper blew out his back. He had all the equipment to pump it out into a tank in his truck. He does it as a retirement job.

Had converted to gas about 2 years ago. Tank about 1/3 full. Guy said if oil is less than 5 yrs old it keeps the cost down since sludge is minimal. Oil over 5yrs is all NG and has to be treated as 100% hazardous waste.

Lots of fun. Move out of room with a 28" door which is slightly smaller with trim bead. He says an oil tank is 27-1/4" but it swells a bit midway. It was push, pull, shove, wedge and tilt to get it through. Next, right past the door is a hard right turn to the first step which is right there outside the door. 32" clearance up steps at least. Up the steps to a landing then another hard left. Through a door, into kitchen then out the front.

$450 minus $25 helper discount.

Let's see how easy it is to get outta bed tomorrow.

[Jim Elbrecht]

-snip-

Maybe once- somebody's first day on the job. But the second the whistler isn't whistling, I've never known a delivery guy to keep pumping. I think you might be a bit prone to exaggeration.

Jim

[Ed Pawlowski]

Seems to happen once a heating season around here. I have no reason to doubt him.

[krw]

When I lived in oil country we'd hear of about one a season, too.

[aemeijers]

I find it hard to believe that any contractor who removes a tank, doesn't also remove or plug (like with concrete or a pipe cap) the outside fill hole hardware. If I was a lawyer, that would look like contributory negligence to me. AKA, liability exposure.

[krw]

Then they have to plug the hole in the wall, too. Yes, it should be done, but isn't always. Getting the pipes out and doing the repair can be a major PITA. Been there.

[Ed Pawlowski]

wrote

How hard is it to shove some putty, caulk, concrete, newspaper, dirt, straw, old underwear, or something un the pipe? Or at least replace the cap with something hard to remove. Or a pipe cap inside

[hallerb]

the second the

or just cut pipe off with sawzall and remove. Demo is usually pretty easy:)

I think its now clear the tank is a hazard to tyhe insurance companys bottom line, since they dont know the tanks real condition and dont know how long you will own the home once you buy it. it could be 30 years making the tank a near guaranteed leaker by age 45:(

[dpb]

That depends, again, on the rules and regulations of the State in which they are working. They are not necessarily excluded from wearing both hats simultaneously in all States--that's the point.

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[trader4]

Specific requirements on what you need to do with the remaining fill pipes and vents for a tank that is removed or de-commissioned in place vary by jurisdiction. Before doing anything, the first thing is to find out what is acceptable. Completely removing them is almost certainly OK. But if you want to close them off, the acceptable methods are frequently specified and may not include just a cap.

[dpb]

Unless, of course, they're dual agents in which they can wear both hats simultaneously...

From the realtors' website...

"When entering into listing contracts, REALTORS® ... .... 3. any potential for listing brokers to act as disclosed dual agents, e.g. buyer/tenant agents. ..."

When the REALTORS' organization recognizes the existence of dual agents, it's fairly near to what I'd call conclusive such things exist...

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[trader4]

Yes, I see and agree to your point. But the potential for the above to occur exists with virtually every listing contract, no? Let's say I hire a real estate agent to sell my house. During an open house, they find a buyer that doesn't have a real estate agent. That agency typically winds up handling both sides of the deal. In NJ here it happens the vast majority of the time in that situation. Are you saying that some states or listing agreements prohibit them from also representing the buyer? I'd think not many realtors would be interested in listing a house with those restrictions, because it effectively cuts their max commission in half. The buyer would then go find another agent to represent them, splitting the commission in half.

[clare]

It has happened too many times, and it wasn't their first day on the job every time - I know of one where they guy's been pumping furnace oil for over 30 years - his hearing's not the best and it was on a busy street. It was his first delivery to a new address. Waterloo Street in Waterloo and it was supposed top be Waterloo street in Kitchener.Had the right number.The houses were only a block or so apart.

The twin cities of Kitchener/ Waterloo have many streets that run all the way through both cities - the 2 main streets (king and Weber) run north, south, east and west, parallell to each other, and cross 3 times. N and S means you are in Waterloo, E and W means you are in Kitchener. The cities are not laid out on a grid.

There are lots of places like that where it is very easy to get the wrong address.