Regular bulbs (almost) as good as CFLs

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RicodJour wrote in part:

Replacing incandescents with CFLs, where CFLs work well (not fridges or motion sensor lights), actually gives a net reduction of mercury contribution to the environment by reducing coal burning. On average, the coal saved by using a CFL in place of an incandescent has more mercury than the CFL has.
Meanwhile, there are safe ways to dispose of dead CFLs. Last time I heard, Home Depot accepts them. Also, for local legal requirements as well as for good ways to get rid of them, there is www.lamprecycle.org
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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On Jun 4, 9:49 am, snipped-for-privacy@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:

Yes, I understand that part, but it's the disposal I'm talking about...well, that and the fact that I am not getting the claimed life out of the CFLs I've been buying, so that skews the calculation.

Right. I collect the dead bulbs and bring them in, but I'm sure most people just toss them in the trash.
R
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RicodJour wrote:

Although the calculation is affected by CFLs failing to meet claimed life expectancy, they otherwise reduce mercury contribution to the environment even if all of their mercury goes into the environment.
Meanwhile, I have a lot of experience with CFLs - not only mine, but also ones other than mine. My experience is that average life expectancy is not short by much.
Short life expectancy mostly occurs when:
* CFLs not rated for small enclosed fixtures, especially if over 15 watts, are used in small enclosed fixtures.
* CFLs not rated for use in recessed ceiling fixtures, especially if over 18 watts (over 14 watts if spiral), are used in recessed ceiling fixtures.
* CFLs are used where on-time is brief, such as motion sensor lights and restrooms used mainly for short trips.
* The CFLs are dollar store stool specimens. I have also had bad experience with Lights of America until I pretty much stopped using them in 2001. Better to get one having the "Energy Star" logo or one of a "Big 3" brand (GE, Philips, Sylvania), preferably both. You may want one of the many now coming with a limited warranty (save both the receipt and packake UPC code, and something to trace which bulb each is for).
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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Don Klipstein wrote:

There's much more Tungsten in a discarded incandescent bulb than there is Mercury in a discarded CFL. Where's the outrage?

Dilbert: "I have recycle bins for paper and metal. But you only have one container." Janitor: (silence) Dilbert: "So I'm thinking you make two trips. Right?" Janitor: (silence) Dilbert: "Oh, I see. You resort them on the loading dock. Right?" Janitor: (silence)
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The upcoming USA Federal 2012/2014 incandescent ban has lots of exceptions and loopholes, including an exception for meeting or exceeding an energy efficiency standard that a few incandescents on the market using "HIR" technology already meet. The one in the above article exceeds that standard and would be allowed.
http://members.misty.com/don/incban.html
Meanwhile, the article mentions an incandescent producing as much light as a 100 watt "regular incandescent" (my words) with "less than 60 watts". 26 watt CFLs achieve such light output.
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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On 6/2/2009 6:00 PM, Don Klipstein wrote:

So I'm going to have to get light fixtures that are non-standard halogens that suck up more energy, or deal with CFL's that give me a headache. Nice choice. :)
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CFLs give you a headache...? Why? If it's the color of the light, they make different types. The flicker on fluorescent tubes bothers me, but I've never noticed a flicker on a CFL.
R
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RicodJour wrote:

A CFL *IS* a fluorescent tube.
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You know exactly what I meant, but thanks for the unnecessary clarification anyway.
R
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On 6/3/2009 9:20 AM, RicodJour wrote:

The "daylight" CFL's are the only ones that I can tolerate, and I generally find them far more fatiguing than regular incandescent bulbs. Do they make them with an incandescent-like glow? That might help.
Although, besides that, I admit I just don't really like the technology that much, beyond the wattage savings. Maybe its psychological. :)
I refuse to put them in anywhere that I need "quick" light, like in hallways, the kitchen, motion-activated yard lights, etc, because it takes :30-:60 to achieve full brightness. And that's under normal (60-80 degree) temperatures. The yard light (I have a two-light flood, one is incandescent, the other is a CFL) takes a good 2 minutes to warm up in the winter.
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We're all psycho to some degree, right? There are fluorescent lights that people generally find easier on their eyes. http://www.fullspectrumsolutions.com/full_spectrum_3_ct.htm

If you have a problem with a quick light, it is actually _you_ that are moving too quickly. Flip the switch and take a couple of minutes to open the door and step outside. See? The fluorescent is shining brightly! ;)
R
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On 6/3/2009 12:19 PM, RicodJour wrote:

I'll have to take a look at those. Thanks!

Darn it! I fell into the trap of blaming everything else BUT myself! lol
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RicodJour wrote:

My experience is that lights with the daylight-like color of "full spectrum" (whether they are or not) look stark and dreary at typical home illumination levels. Also, less light (by photometric units) is produced for a given amount of electricity when color rendering index gets past the maximum of the common triphosphor technology (mid 80's).
One more thing - there is no industry-accepted definition of "full spectrum".
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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On Jun 3, 6:02 pm, snipped-for-privacy@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:

Well, your experience is not my experience, and there seem to be quite a number of people that like/love the things. I'm kind of surprised that you feel the full spectrum light is harsh. I find it easier on the eyes. I'm also not sure what you mean by dreary - dreary to me usually means there's not enough light, as in gloomy, so I don't know how it could be both harsh and dreary.
Check out the Verilux brand. Their products usually get four and five stars on Amazon. My Dad bought their reading lamp and liked it so much that he now buys them and gives them as gifts. The Verilux CFL seems to be a hole in their line-up, though. It doesn't get good reviews.
The Litetronics Neolite CFL also gets some good reviews, though I have no firsthand experience with them. I do like the fact that there's far less mercury in their CFL than the average. http://www.consumersearch.com/light-bulbs/litetronics-neolite-t2
Don, what do you do anyway? You seem to have a particular affinity for lighting topics.
R
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Don Klipstein wrote:

My dentist has four DIFFERENT fluorescent bulbs in his overhead. When asked, he said that the different "colors" helps him get the right shading for his work.
Hmmm.
I replaced three of the four incandescent bulbs above the bathroom mirror with as wildly different (white) colors as I could find and my then-current squeeze said she could do a better job of applying makeup.
Looked the same to me, but for just a few bucks, she VERY enthusiastically expressed her gratitude.
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RicodJour wrote:

I will sometimes notice a flicker effect with standard fluorescent lamps that use magnetic ballasts but not those with electronic ballasts like CFL's. Here's a website with some information about the reasons for perceived flicker of fluorescent lights:
http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/ergonomics/lighting_flicker.html
http://tinyurl.com/727gj
TDD
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Or non-standard halogens that use less energy, including ones that resemble and are interchangeable with "A19" incandescents with E26/E27 bases. Such as Philips Halogena Energy Saver. A 70 watt one produces nearly as much light as a "standard" 100W incandescent. A 40 watt one produces close to as much light as a "standard" 60 watt incandescent.

- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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HeyBub wrote:

circuit is a short circuit.
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