Refrigerator not working again

Page 8 of 13  

On 2010-09-22, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:

Does that refrigeration knowledge amount to so little? Any textbook you would recommend?
I cannot believe that, after fixing and retrofitting my Bridgeport Interact CNC mill, I cannot ever properly diagnose a bad Sears refrigerator. I started knowing nothing about CNC mills and now, thanks to all the great help I got, I have a working CNC machine.
Maybe I can fix the fridge too.
i
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Well, HIS does. The body of knowlege a competent tech has is quite large, and encompasses a wide variety of disciplines. You have many of them already. But the skills specific to refrigeration repair are not many, and your learning them wouldn't be a stretch, at all.
Now, I said, "technician". There's a whopping difference between a competent tech and a real refrigeration expert. He's the guy who can compute actual superheats based upon the refrigerant's characteristics, the compressor specs, the load, etc. He can do and knows a lot more than that.
If you're working on massive chillers for domed stadiums, you need that sort of knowlege. Those guys are real engineers.
The techs could do everything they do from a ten page cheat-sheet. And no... I'm not kidding. Like most repair trades, except for the handling and diagnosing of actual refrigeration problems, they solve most of their problems by parts-swapping. Most of their refrigeration-based problems are handled by rote, not by a clear understanding of how the system actually does what it does, or why the pressures must be what they must be, or what actually causes them to go "off".
I worked strictly as a grunt for an HVAC guy for a summer, many years ago. With only that training, which consisted mostly of peering over the shoulder of my boss, I got to where I can (and do) repair all of my own R-22 and R-134a appliances. I cannot work on systems using azeotropes, because I can't buy them, and don't intend to get licensed; so I can't fix any R410a problems that require refrigerant. I also cannot buy R-22, but I don't need it (dried and filtered propane works fine, if you don't have R22), and R134a is still available without an EPA certificate and a licensed "master" operator supervising you.
Unlike the "pros", I don't deliberately vent systems to the air. I built a small reclamation unit. It saves me the guilt of doing what I see professionals do almost every time I hire one. It also captures some refrigerant, which, if it's not been exposed to a compressor burn-out (and thus containing acid), can be filtered, dried, and returned to service. (and yes, safely. The "pros" would have you believe that _any_ reclaimed refrigerant will instantly destroy anything you put it in)
Everything I've needed to know to stay "current" on what I can legally do is available on-line.
I don't repair anyone's equipment but my own. I will, however, diagnose friends' systems for them, so they don't get bilked by the repair tech when he finally shows up.
LLoyd
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"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote in message

What % of the time would you estimate that happens?
Steve
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I was also wondering that, but glad you asked. I'm guessing that at least some of the time, Lloyd's correct diagnosis is much different than the tech from the yellow pages. I'm guessing Lloyd and the tech disagree about 75% of the time.
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Around where we live, I'd say at least 30%. Most of the problems with split systems around here are due to age, corrosion, and leaky fittings; or the omni-present lightning-induced electrical burnouts.
But about 1/3 of the time when they DON'T need anything but a simple repair or leak fix, the "repairmen" will show up, puff and wheeze around the unit for an hour or so, and declare it's going to need "(new compressor, new unit, replacing... et. al.)".
We have some guys who at least can fix units. We have others whose main reason for making a service call is to entice the owner to buy a new unit.
LLoyd
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I'm surprised. I'd have figured higher than that. I've also met customers who say that the techs from this or that company seemed only interested in selling new units. Aparently, selling new units is not limited to one company.
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On 9/22/2010 8:40 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

Me and my friends have been installing surge arresters on a lot of AC systems especially in rural areas, it keeps them running and the people who depend on them and us happy.
TDD
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"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote:

That sounds like Orlando. Frequent news stories about HVAC companies committing fraud. the owners claim that they will fire the 'bad employee', but the news crew frequently get shots of them still driving a marked company vehicle days to months later.
I guess that there aren't enough small, crooked used car lots to hire all these idiots.
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hire
The problem is that the EPA and the refrigeration industry have conspired to make their trade a government-sanctioned cartel and a "black magic" trade, respectively.
If it's "illegal to do yourself", it "must be difficult"; no?
HVAC distributors are generally honest, although they have the same cartel mentality. For instance, a large umbrella corporation that owned GemAire recently acquired Grainger and Baker Brothers, as well.
Now, none of their individual business units will sell you anything that _contains_ Freon, even if it's a sealed system. They tell callers, "it's the law...". But, of course, it's not; you can buy "sealed systems" in the form of window units and fridges at any store you wish, except those cartel members.
The more the government encourages them, the more dishonest they become. (sidebar... EPA should be abolished, and ALL the f'ing unconstitutional "laws" they've passed) One _shouldn't_ gas-off Freon into the atmosphere, but the act should be illegal, not the possession of Freon.
Now, local repair shops? I'd say 60% of them are scam artists with no repair skills at all. Another 38% are completely incompetent, even if they're honest. That leaves what?
LLoyd
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"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote:

The 1.5% that can do a good job, if they aren't having a bad day/week/month/year. :(
You even find idiots at the OEMs. :(
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"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote in message

You can run those old systems all you want until you need a compressor, or a coil... then *if* you can find one, in another year, you"ll be hard pressed to find R22, and when you do, its going to cost you. In the mean time, you can keep throwing your money away when you pay your electric bill.
I put a new 14SEER dual fuel/hybrid system(4 ton) in my own home in February.... my August light bill was only $200, and used 500kwh *LESS* than August last year. You can *DO* what you want, I will keep my money in my pocket, thanx.
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I didn't say replacing a unit for the efficiency was a bad idea. I said reefer guys are crooks. There's a difference.
LLoyd
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"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote in message

OK, how are we crooks and what part of that would not apply to your profession?? Or is it that we are not supposed to make a living to be able to keep a roof over our heads, food on the table, and support our families, as well as those who depend on us for their livings too??
What is *YOUR* vocation?? hmm??
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I design pyrotechnic effects for the stage trade, sell them to people who ASK for them, and do NOT bilk people by telling them the effect they bought for $60.00 two years ago needs to be replaced by a $6,000.00 "new technology" replacement, or their family will die from CO poisoning.
Instead, if the effect they bought doesn't work right, I replace it for free -- including shipping.
And y'know what? Nobody who's ever dealt with our company thinks we're dishonest -- not even the ones who don't prefer ours over another brand. Why? 1) We've never, ever cheated anyone. 2) We bend over backwards to save our customers money, instead of pushing more and more stuff down their throats. The result is, the sales we might have "lost" by not pushing hard, we gain back in new business by happy referrals.
I can't even think five times when an HVAC guy actually fixed something that I was happy about it. They overcharge, they seldom fix the problem on the first try, and always say "the other part won't be in 'til next Tuesday", they have a cartel/monopoly subsidized by our government, and they mostly don't know what they're doing.
Now... How are you crooks?
First of all, I can't speak to whether or not you personally are one. But the company you keep paints you with a broad brush. MOST of the HVAC "repair" companies in Central Florida have so many black marks against them with BBB, Florida Department of Law Enforcement, and various "investigative journalists" that it's as likely to find an honest one as to win the lottery.
They even go so far as to sabotage units so they can declare them junk and coerce the customer into a replacement.
THAT's how "you" are crooks. I never said, "All reefer guys are crooks."
LLoyd
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"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote:

It's been shown on Central Florida local TV where the so called HVAC Tech punches a hole in the coil of someone's A/C unit on a hidden camera. They had the system tested by one company, then called different companies who ALL wanted over $1000 each to fix imagined or created problems.

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You know, that sounds like a fun job. Sad, that you havn't found honest HVAC companies. I'm not sure about my part of the world. I did see a video years ago. A news team had a HVAC system disabled (remove one wire nut from the contactor wire). And then called different companies to come out and look. One cut a wire on the contactor coil, even. I think one of the companies they called noticed the loose wire, and fixed it inexpensively.
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On 9/22/2010 9:23 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

I wanna blow stuff up too! Pleeeez! Meeeee Toooooo! 8-)
TDD
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The Daring Dufas wrote:

I miss firing the M-72, and the sound of exploding parts inside big TV transmitters while you were on the air. The first was at a US Army base where I was a broadcast engineer. :)
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On 9/21/2010 10:01 PM, Ignoramus25344 wrote:

I don't see why not, I remember fixing a CNC machine that had a Toshiba bubble memory unit in the controller. It was a hoot, when I told the kid at the electronic supply house about the bubble memory unit, I got a blank stare and a "duh?".
TDD
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The Daring Dufas wrote:

Remember all the hype about Bubble memory? It was supposed to do to solid state RAM, what RAM did to core memory. I've only seen one computer with Bubble memory, and it failed twice in two years.
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