Reconnect cutoff drain pipe

[tev9999]

I'm working on redesigning my kitchen - 1950's brick ranch with basement (MI). It appears the previous owners moved the sink from the east to the south wall of the kitchen. This makes for a very limited kitchen layout, so I would like to move it back.

There is a 3" drain that was cutoff flush with the basement floor directly under the old sink location. It was sealed with, as best I can describe it, "cloth gunk" when I bought the house. I capped it with an expanding gasket. The gunk would get wet if the drainline backed up, so this tells me it is still connected under the basement floor.

The current stack is on the south wall near the existing kitchen sink and next to the laundry tub in the basement.

I see my best options to move the sink as:

1. Run PVC straight down to the old pipe. Use a Fernco doughnut (or something similar) to seal 2" pvc to the inside of the 3" cast iron.
2. Run PVC straight down. Break up the floor around the old pipe and install an external coupling.
3. Run PVC down, turn 90 degrees horizontally (with propery slant) about 8', turn 90 degrees right, run about 5' to the existing stack and tie in there.

For all options I would install a Studor vent under the sink.

Option one seems the easiest. Would this work? I would really like to avoid having to cut into the stack.

Any help is appreciated.

[tev9999]

Just got home and opened the cap. It was actually just a mixture of broken pieces of cast iron and sludge. Picked out what I could and used a shop vac to get some of the gunk. It is taking a medium flow from a hose now and is draining out through the main cleanout (I had a fear it was just dumping under the house or something). Poured a bottle of drano down and will see if it clears more gunk and if there is more phyical blockage.

Seems like a weird location for a stack - dead center of a basement window. If I get it flowing good I'll divert around the window with some elbows.

I'll update again if I find a fitting.

[tev9999]

Latest update: It's actually a 4" drain. Drano did not do much. I'll try digging for more broken iron and snaking tomorrow.

I'm now thinking I could transition from 2" to 4" with PVC, then use the donut or some rubber gasket. Home depot did not have anything that looked like it would work. I'll keep searching.

[Colbyt]

I am not aware of any donuts that will work. The 2" one might since the ID of a 3" pipe is close to the ID size of a 2" hub. There may be other options I am not aware of at a real plumbing supply house. If you can find a fit that is just a little oversized you can always trim the rubber a bit to fit. I have been forced to do this a time or two with untrue sized hubs.

If you have to break away the floor you will only need to go about 2" deep for a Fernco coupling to work.

I would suggest that before you tackle any of these that you open the pipe and make sure it can handle a strong flow from a garden hose. It would be a real pity to find a broken or plugged line After you did all the work.

If you find a solution be sure to post back to the same thread for the education of myself and others.

Colbyt

[maradcliff]

Get a short piece of 4" PVC, break away the floor about 2" deep around the pipe (carefully to avoid breaking the cast iron pipe). Apply 4" Fernco. Reduce the 4" PVC to whatever size you need with glue on pieces.

OR

If you are real handy. Get a piece of 3" cast iron. Slip it inside the 4" cast iron pipe in your floor. Apply oakum between the pipes. Melt lead and fill the gap with lead using the proper tools to do a leaded joint in cast iron. (Yes. i am dating myself, but I have all the tools and knowledge to do leaded joints). They do make some junk called plastic lead. I've tried it, it's pretty crappy, but would probably work for your needs. Oakum is still used. (Of course you will then need a 3" cast to 2" PVC fernco and they are made). You wont likely find reducing fernco couplers at HD. Go to a plumbing supply house.

Mark

[tev9999]

Thanks for the advice. I kind of like the lead/oakum idea - seems like it would be a little more rigid than a Fernco connector if it gets bumped. It will be in an exposed traffic area along a wall in the laundry room.

The other issue I have not fixed is that the main cleanouts were never leaded in - I can just pick up the cast iron piece without removing the screw in cap. Probably easier just to cap these with the Ferncos.

Is any special equipment needed to do the leading, or just a torch and something to melt the lead in? Time for more research.

Should I put in a cleanout too, or is that overkill?

[maradcliff]

To melt the lead there are stoves that have a cast iron pot on the top. I used to do plumbing, but I never did that much lead work to make it cost effective to buy one. I just bought a cast iron pot for around $10 (probably $20 now) and would hang it from something (sawhorse) with a chain. Then I took a propane TURBO TORCH and melted a small amount as needed. (Old wheel weights work fine, but remove the steel clips). You will need a ladle (a scoop to pour the lead, also cast iron. Then I had two tools to pound the edges of the lead tightly. One is an inner, the other is an outer. (I can not recall the names of these things). That is an important step to use these tools. They are not all that expensive. You could probably rent all these tools from an older hardware store that rents tools, or spent $50 to buy the whole set, assuming you have a turbo torch or other HOT torch. These common propane torches that sell for $12 are not hot enough. Turbo torches are $40 but well worth the price for sweating copper, etc. (Maybe Ebay or an other online auction has this stuff???)

Your cleanouts sound like an accident waiting to happen. If you get a clog, you will have sewerage all over the place. Fernco caps will solve that problem. (Leading a horizontal joint requires yet another special tool, and is much harder to do).

If you want a cleanout, put it in the PVC. Of course if it's only 2 or 3 feet to thje sink trap, you can just remove the trap for cleaning in the future.

Mark

[tev9999]

I seem to have found a cheap/easy solution at Lowes. The ID of the iron pipe is about 3 3/4" Picked up a Fernco 3" to 3" donut, a section of 3" PVC and a 1 1/2" to 3" PVC wye. Cut about an 8" section of 3" pipe and put the donut on so about 2" of pipe is below the donut. This fits VERY tightly into the pipe - maybe too tight. Put the wye above the donut - the wider bell keeps the donut from sliding up. Managed to push about 1/4 inch into the iron pipe and gave it a full garden hose of water - No leaking through the donut (didn't seal the PVC yet). Disassembled for the moment since I'm not ready to run the rest of the pipe yet. I'll wire brush the ID of the iron to clean it up and help push the donut down. Cleanout cap will go in the top of the wye, sink drain into the side.

The cleanouts are higher than the floor drains, so my sewage problems back up on the basement floor anyway. I will pick up caps on my next trip to Lowes. Learned two things several years ago:

1. Never try to snake a sewer line under a maple tree with a 50' flat blade snake - it can get entwined in tree roots 40' out.
2. You never want to hear your plumber say "backhoe".

[Colbyt]

After cleaning lube the pipe and the donut with liquid dish soap. You can do the same for the pvc. Sometimes this makes all the difference. Do not substitute petroleum products.

Colbyt

[tev9999]

Well it worked. It took a lot of soap, trimming the donut a bit, and a lot of pounding with a 3 pound sledge, but I got it to seat. Ran some

1 1/2 inch pipe about 5 feet up and no leaks with a full blast garden hose. Of course I forgot one 45 degree fitting, so it is back to the store to complete the run to the kitchen.

Thanks for the help.