Recommendations for a spring-loader center punch

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The water is not conductive enough to dead short a car battery. Eventually it would go dead but not instantly.
Why the horn? Because the people who related the experience couldn't SEE the cars. Odds are other electrical anomalies were going on, but those are visual. Sound travels around corners and through walls. Light does not. ================================================ I think Larry's got the right answer. This wasn't a recent flood, but it was a serious one where the storm surge flooded the entire city to well over the tops of the cars. Older cars were wired differently and even the mildly conductive storm surge water (and it's got plenty of salt, dissolved bits of metal and all sorts of contaminants) would set off the horns. The way my (admittedly fractured) memory recalls, they said "the water was rising silently but very quickly when suddenly a chorus of car horns began to sound, only to be drowned out as the cars then submerged completely." It's weird enough to have stuck in my mind as in "who would have thought?"
Back in the 60's and 70's car horn relays used to stick ON a lot more than they seem to these days. That seems to indicate a major rethinking in the way horns are wired. It was the same program where four kids survived a 50 mile trip in an attic that floated away in the storm surge after it became detached from the house. The flooding was pretty serious. Can't remember the hurricane, but I want to say Diane. Probably wrong. That memory's not clear at all.
-- Bobby G.
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You're right that you shouldn't bet on all cars opening underwater, but weather/waterproofing is not really an issue. Switches, relays and motors (even the locks usually use motors) usually work just fine under water at 12 volts without any protection, probably for hours to days (until something corrodes too much). The battery will probably leak down before the circuitry fails (maybe not if the computer is involved).
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You're right that you shouldn't bet on all cars opening underwater, but weather/waterproofing is not really an issue. Switches, relays and motors (even the locks usually use motors) usually work just fine under water at 12 volts without any protection, probably for hours to days (until something corrodes too much). The battery will probably leak down before the circuitry fails (maybe not if the computer is involved).
Every scenario is not the same. If the car lands askew, sometimes the door is held shut by debris or the bottom. And sometimes, shit happens, and it's YOUR car that won't function underwater.
I am/was a scuba diver, certified twice, instructor once, and completed hard hat commercial diving school. I've spent more time in a decompression chamber than most people have spent underwater.
The scenario of drowning in a car is overblown. If you have ever watched a demonstration of actual escapes, you will see that you have quite a bit of time to get out. And popping the window early on with a wall of water just outside waiting to hit you in the face with all those tiny glass particles isn't the best idea.
The proper procedure is to follow the air bubble up, and when you are about to run out of air, pop the window.
DON'T FORGET TO EXHALE SLIGHTLY ON THE WAY TO THE SURFACE, or you'll die from an air embolism rather than drowning.
Panic is the cause of most deaths in this scenario.
But yes, a spring loaded center punch is worth it's weight in gold in that scenario.
Steve, NAUI CERTIFIED, NAUI INSTRUCTOR, OCEAN CORPORATION OF COMMERCIAL DIVING GRADUATE WITH SIX YEARS COMMERCIAL DIVING EXPERIENCE
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That's my feeling. It's so little cost for something that could have great value.

It's not a common way to die. I wonder if some agency tracks death by drowning in cars.
Best I could do is:
<< In Finland e.g. yearly over 50 accidents occur while driving over ice that is too thin to support the car.>>
That will put you in a bad situation very quickly.

Good point. I hope I can remember it while panicking. Unfortunately, the best way to insure good, non-panic performance is to train and that's not too practical.

Doesn't that still push some glass in? I assume it won't be nearly as much, but it's probably still a good idea to turn away when popping the glass. I had a huge piece of ice break off the car ahead of me at 65 mph. It disintegrated the window on the passenger side. I don't think I would have survived had it hit on the driver side.

From that shallow a depth? (I am assuming 10' feet but 5' could cover a car.

That why the God of War, Mars, had two attendants, Phobos and Deimos. Deimos or (Deimus) was the god (daimon) of fear, dread and terror, and his twin brother Phobos, of panic fear, flight and battlefield rout. Panic's a proven killer in a *lot* of scenarios, like the Iroquois Theater fire. Sometimes, one person who can keep their wits about them can save an awful lot of people from death.

I'm convinced. I've seen people try to break out windows without one and it's a lot tougher than it would seem. They flex but they don't break.

What do commercial divers do? (pardon my ignorance) Bridge support inspection? Ship repair? Offshore oil rig work?
-- Bobby G.
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The temperature of the water is the critical thing. There's a HUGE difference between cool water and very cold water when it hits you all at once.

You can embolize in three feet of water. Ever see someone breathing through a reed to escape the bad guys? Go sit in your pool with a hollow rod until the top of your head is under water. Now try to breathe. You can't do it.

All of the above. Ship inspection. Laying pipelines. Inspecting behind other companies to assure things are right. Setting explosives. Sometimes as simple as cutting ropes out of propellers or hooking on to something someone's dropped overboard. Like a car or a forklift. Or hundreds of lengths of drill pipe.

Steve
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wrote

I'd prefer not to have to escape from either one. This year a lot of people seem to have gotten caught in flash floods, often dying because they failed to abandon their car in the first few moments. Of course, there's the risk of being swept away. What's the drill when you're caught in your car in rapidly rising water and your rope's in the trunk?

You mean that the literally dozens of movies I've seen that trick in are all frauds? Say it isn't so!

Reminds me of "Seahunt" with Lloyd Bridges. Probably not as many knife fights in real life, though.
-- Bobby G.
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MPH or

The difference is the amount of force brought to bear on a small surface area of the glass. It's why these punches, with a tiny foot print can do what a baseball bat might not. That bead on the end of the baton is the key. It concentrates the force to a very small surface area and POP. It's also why trying to kick them out from the inside with rubber-soled shoes often fails. Not enough force applied to a small enough area. A tire iron pops out a car window pretty nicely because it has a hard metal end with a small contact footprint. Good for inducing "battered skull" syndrome, too. (-:
-- Bobby G.
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wrote:

All the cars I've had with power windows and locks had fairly hardy circuits that did not run through the computer (likely for exactly this reason). I would be very surprised if they didn't work underwater for a few minutes at least. I think I remember someone running tests on this (Mythbusters maybe) and it wasn't usually a problem.
On the other hand, I wouldn't lose much sleep over paying $2.50 for a punch just in case... _______________________________________________________
Thanks to all that replied. $2.50 is cheap at twice the price. Plus, you never know when you'll pass by a wreck where someone needs to be pulled out. A window punch is a good thing to have around.
-- Bobby G.
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wrote:

Can't believe I forgot about our good friends, HF. The only problem buying stuff from them is that I usually spend $20 for every $1 worth of stuff that I really need. (-:
-- Bobby G.
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This from the country that brought us the Titanic. I'll punch the window out LONG before the damn car goes all the way under.

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Robert Green posted for all of us...

Are you in the Emergency Services? If not STAY AWAY! An alternative is to make me the sole beneficiary of your insurance.
NOAA slogan: Don't drown, turn around.
You will ONLY involve MORE EMS personnel in saving your sorry butt.
--
Tekkie

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On 9/26/2011 1:40 PM, Tekkie wrote:

He wasn't talking about playing rescue man, he was talking about saving his own ass if he happens to end up parked in a canal unexpectedly.
--
aem sends...

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Thanks for explaining that. I had no idea WTF Tekkie was so fired up about so I just let it slide. It sounds like even if I were to come upon someone trapped in their car, I'd better wait until EMS gets there, even if the passengers would have drowned/burned by then. Sheesh.
-- Bobby G.
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