Recharging car battery

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Ralph Mowery wrote:

Hi, Here in town, there is a shop only sells batteries. Blemished new brand name ones at discount. I always have good luck with their battries.
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On Tuesday, July 1, 2014 8:17:31 AM UTC-7, Tony Hwang wrote:

[...].

What is a "blemished" new brand name battery? Cosmetic? Or?
TIA
HB
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On 7/1/2014 6:00 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

The Interstate store near me sells "blems" which have different or no stickers. Cosmetic problem of some kind. I've found them to be good quality.
When my Dad died, I took his old dead battery to Interstate. The guy tested a couple things, and then gave me a new battery with not so much as form to sign. Smile, no charge, off you go. I was astounded, thrilled, and such. The battery worked fine, the car sold.
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On 6/30/14, 3:00 AM, Higgs Boson wrote:

A neighbor had trouble with his 2-year battery after 2 years, so he replaced it. I got 11 more years out of it.
I normally didn't take that car more than 5 miles, so the battery didn't endure much heat and vibration. Several times a year, I'd put it on an automatic pulse charger. I'd plug the charger into a $15 watt meter. Even if a battery starts out 90% charged, it can take hours to get all the sulfate out of the plates and into the electrolyte. I'd leave it on until the wattage no longer dropped significantly in half an hour.
When you hit the starter, sulfates can flake off. You lose plate material, and when they accumulate on the bottom, electrical leakage can speed up self-discharge. Left on, sulfates eventually harden, making more and more of the plate useless.
Sulfation from self-discharge shortens the life of mower batteries left over the winter. It would make sense to charge them periodically, especially before cranking in the spring. I went to AGM for lower self-discharge and better vibration resistance. Then I read that charging above 120 F will shorten the life of AGM. An IR thermometer showed the battery was getting nearly that warm even in cool weather. I shoved a piece of foil-covered insulating board between the battery and the engine. It made a big difference.
The OEM battery was 320 CCA. The AGM I found was 160. Then I read that the OEM battery is 160 in another brand of mower with the same engine, so I bought the AGM. Sometimes, it won't turn the engine over. If I let off the key and immediately turn it again, it will crank merrily. I guess if I catch the engine around bottom dead center, the battery won't provide enough torque to overcome compression. I wonder if that means a 160 CCA AGM won't provide the same starting surge as a 160 CCA conventional battery.
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If I remeber correctly they were just a big rheostat and the rectifier tube, so they could put out almost half the peak to peak voltage of the supply. Nominal 120 volt RMS is about 170PP - - Half of that is 85 volts. which can charge 32 cells at 2,6 volts each.
Our local battery supplier has a 220 volt Tungar charger that would maintain a string of 10 12 volt batteries, and I think I remember some used "powerstats" instead of rheostats and could put out double the AC line voltage into the tube.
I know that the garage where I did my apprenticeship had one of the earliest metal plate rectifier high current battery chargers. The rectifier was about a foot square and I think it dated to pre-WW2.. Also had the little Tungar bulk charger. Out tow truck was a 1943? ex military PowerWagon
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On 07/01/2014 12:41 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I have several of them and none have rheostats, all use transformer taps and heavy duty rotary switches.
The Tungar bulb filament takes a lot of current. As much as half of the total power consumed goes to light it.
The oldest one I have is from 1932 or so, still works fine!
Also have a few from the 50's
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wrote:

The 6 volt Vdub and the 12 volt VDub had different sized flywheels too. (which is why , generally, when converting a 6v to 12v the starter was not changed) Dodge Brothers used 12 volts back around 1915. BAck in the forties,Buick used Neg ground, Cadillac Pos , Chevy Neg, Chrysler Pos,, Olds Neg, Studebaker Pos, and Pontiac Neg. Willys used Negative as well, but most of the rest used Pos. - and virtually all cars of THAT era were 6 volt. When the switchover to 12 volts occurred, most North American manufacturers standardized on Neg fround - It took the British manufacturers till the late sixties to complete the switchover to Neg ground at least for the North American Market)
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On Tue, 1 Jul 2014 10:54:48 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"

There is a lot to be said for "experienced parts" over "new parts". You KNOW the "experienced" part has a history of working, while the "new" part is an unknown entity. If I have any question about my batteries I have a midtronics tester put on early in the fall to see what condition they are in. If they are questionable or weak, I replace them Otherwize they try for another year. The original battery in my 1980 Corolla went 8 years. The battery in my 1988 Chrysler went 12, IIRC. The brand new Canadian Tire Lifetime Warranty battery in the Ambassador lasted 6 months for the first one, 9 months for the second one, and was still in the car when I sold it about a year later. The length of the warranty has nothing to do with the quality of the battery. I generally get 6 or more years out of Interstate Megatron batteries in my vehicles. The first CTC battery in the Ambassador failed, appropriately enough, half way accross the Ambassador Bridge while returning from Detroit to Windsor. We coasted all the way down to the customs booth, got a boost, and made it to the closest Canadian Tire store.(where I had to buy a new battery because the reciept was at home in Waterloo) When I took the dead battery and both reciepts to the Waterloo store I got the refund for the dead battery.
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Here is that photo of the 6 amp Tungar rectifier tube
next to it ans an 85 amp silicon diode
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t31.0-8/s960x960/705029_561538863873487_1091950973_o.jpg
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philo  posted for all of us...
And I know how to SNIP

05029_561538863873487_1091950973_o.jpg
Philo, thanks for that. I really enjoy you doing this!
--
Tekkie

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WOW AWESOME UNREAL Tekkie knows how to SNIP!!!!!
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On 7/15/2014 9:27 PM, bob haller wrote:

I bet he's potty trained, too? No, that would be too much.
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Christopher A. Young
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In the cig lighter can only be a voltmeter though - not an ammeter
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wrote:

That would give you a 10 volt battery when it shorted. More plausible explanation would be what I had on more than one battery - the last one on the Aerostar - where the intercell link would open under certain conditions. Absolutely stone dead - come back an hour later after the sun had warmed up the car a bit, and it would start perfectly. That is the only battery failure mode tht will fool a Midtronics tester.
Had the same problem on the 6 volt battery on the old 1949 Massey Harris 44, but it let us know by blowing the bottom out of the battery when it arced inside, setting off the hydrogen in the top of the cells.
That's 2 that I remember.
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At least one of the old ones I worked with didn't have a transformer because it was not isolated - you could get a nasty shock from the charging lead to ground. It had either a big wirewound rheostat or switched resistance. I seem to remember it being fully variable - which would have been either a rheostat or a powerstat (variable autotransformer)
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On 07/01/2014 09:32 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I also repair vacuum tube radios and get a kick out of some of those old advertisements showing someone lugging a 6v car battery down to their local service station.
Asking if you are sick of having to keep recharging your "filament" battery and tired of acid burns on the rug.
It was a for a "battery eliminator"
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/Philco_Socket_Power_A_%26_B_Battery_eliminators_-_1925_August_brochure.JPG
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wrote:

I'm not saying this contradicts you but FWIW, the difference between a generator and an alternator was that alternators have higher output at low rpm than generators did.
That's why everyone switched, Most of them around 1964?? And that's why you can charge your battery while idling.
Used to be when the car idled, the red idiot light woudl come on that said "Battery" or something. With a generator the battery was discharging even thought the engine was running. Now you should be able to remove the battery and drive all over without it, as long as you don't turn off the car.
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On 7/2/14, 9:23 PM, micky wrote:

I had the opposite experience with BMW motorcycles. My '62 worked fine with a generator. My '70 had an alternator. Magazine reviews talked about how powerful it was. I discovered it wouldn't charge below 50 mph. It was an automobile alternator mounted on the crankshaft. I think it was designed to run on a pulley, turning three times faster than an automobile crankshaft.
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J Burns wrote:

Hi, My trailer tow truck had after market 150A alternator. it could charge on idle including the pair in the trailer. It had heavier stator winding in Y with triple diode packs. Racing guys often change pulley size.
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wrote:

You're probably right. Too late for me to tell.
But to add to this, it's the nature of batteries that they have almost full voltage weven when they are substatially discharged. The battery can be 80% discharged and still have iirc 90% or more of its max voltage. So you put those 1200 ampere seconds into the battery and you'll get them back at 11.3 volts, which is enough to start the car.
Someone showed me mathematically why the voltage stays so high, but I forget who, when, and why.
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