My point was that since he did the work at the agreed-upon price, and you're satisfied with the results, you really don't have any reason to question whether the charge was reasonable or not -- you already agreed that it was.
It was 10:30 in the morning. His nephew was on vacation, so the calls went to him. He had a heart attack not so long ago, so he probably needs a lot of sleep.
Cheri
Right, that is called a "service charge" which is what it costs to get the trade professional out to your house with all their tools, equipment, supply of spare parts and the knowledge they possess...
It sounds like you either didn't know how to do the repair you were attempting or didn't have the right tool or a large enough tool to unstick something that was stuck...
As far as inflating the cost of your service, with a "tip" such gratuities are not required nor expected in the trades, the guy fixed your sink for $60 in less than 10 minutes, which was a skilled labor task, you don't need to "tip" him for that, as he is NOT a "service" employee being paid less than minimum wage to wait on your table at a restaurant -- you TIP those workers, not the ones who earn exponentially more...
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Maybe *you* don't want to tip people that are called out to your home, but I always do. That's probably why he got out of bed and came over to fix my problem since he's been here before.
Cheri
I agreed that it was reasonable for ME, at that time, that place, those circumstances. What I was seeking from others here was THEIR opinion as to the reasonableness of the price in the situation described.
If several posters replied that it sounded more like a $100 job to them, I wouldn't use again or recommend to others this particular plumber. If the consensus of replies was that a more typical cost was ~$500, then I'd certainly use this plumber again, and recommend him to my friends. As I interpret the responses so far I don't think I got either a bargain or a rip-off. I received confirmation that others think the price was reasonable, thus reinforcing my own original opinion.
I understand exactly why you were asking, I think it's a reasonable question. Works for me.
Cheri
Over the years I have learned much from various Usenet posters, and have read a lot of crap as well.
That level of detail is not necessary for the general feedback I was seeking.
No "buyer's remorse" here at all. That is your assumption, and a faulty one.
Correct.
While it is true that I will probably not have an identical project anytime soon, the feedback I was seeking will be useful in terms of whether to recommend this particular plumber to friends, or to use him again for other projects at my home. Car mechanics, electricians, plumbers, and other skilled workers are easy to find if one wants to use the phone book or online directories - but my circle of friends strongly prefer to use only such workers who are personally recommended by someone who has used them, would use them again, and who recommend them to their friends.
If I were you, what I would be worrying about is not how much you paid but if it happens again will he come back to fix it for free. In other words, what kind of warranty did he give you. Why was the toilet wobbling in the first place? Was the toilet bolted on to the floor or the flange? If the toilet was bolted on to the flange is the flange in turn bolted securely on to the floor and what part of the floor is it bolted on to, is it just the underlayment or something more substantial? Do you have enough of a background with this plumber to know that he guarantees his work and takes pride in it? My advise to people is not to worry about how much you=92re paying but how much you can trust the guy who is doing the work.
Me three! I've often asked the same question and gotten similar results. The issue for me is that when a critical system is in failure mode, you don't have the luxury or time to get a lot of competitive bids. You bite the bullet and do it if the price doesn't strike you as highway robbery. You still want to know afterwards whether it was high, low or spot on. Considering everything that went wrong on me when my buddy and I tried to install a new toilet, $250 sounds just about right, especially if the right parts weren't on the truck. I am sure that you know that in that fee are bits of licensing, insurance, tools, truck upkeep, etc.
Reminds me of the old engineering joke. A company exec sees an engineer fix an expensive machine by just putting a bolt through a hole. He demands a breakdown of the $1000 bill.
Bolt ----- $0.50 Knowing where to put bolt - $999.50
-- Bobby G.
Yes, this question and the answers will give me some idea if it happens to me in the future, since in many areas I have no idea what the charge should be. You always have a few know it alls with smart assed answers, but it's worth it for the good answers you get.
Cheri
I agreed that it was reasonable for ME, at that time, that place, those circumstances. What I was seeking from others here was THEIR opinion as to the reasonableness of the price in the situation described.
If several posters replied that it sounded more like a $100 job to them, I wouldn't use again or recommend to others this particular plumber. If the consensus of replies was that a more typical cost was ~$500, then I'd certainly use this plumber again, and recommend him to my friends. As I interpret the responses so far I don't think I got either a bargain or a rip-off. I received confirmation that others think the price was reasonable, thus reinforcing my own original opinion.
Good advice.
My experience has been that if I find a car mechanic, electrician, plumber, other skilled tradesman who has been used repeatedly by my friends and colleagues, then I don't have a problem with follow-up repairs.
The house was built 30 years ago, and the toilet had required no work during that time. One of the two bolts on the toilet which hold it down no longer was attached or firm at the end below the floor. When the toilet was removed it was clear that the original flange had just corroded away, and the hole into which the bolt head fitted was enlarged - so much so that the bolt head could not get a good grip. The old flange was removed, which was the hardest part for the plumber, per his comments. It was made of plastic and I'm not sure how it had been fastened to the upright pipe, which is also plastic. Eventually the old flange was removed. Another plastic flange was then inserted over/into (I couldn't see well enough to tell which) the upright pipe, and glued to it. Then new bolts were inserted into the metal ring that swiveled on the new flange. The toilet was lowered onto the flange/floor, with the bolts sticking through the holes on the base of the toilet. Nuts and washer were applied, and after some shimming to make sure there was no more wobbliness, and after ensuring that the toilet was oriented parallel to the enclosing walls, the nuts were tightened. Then the outside of the base of the toilet was caulked. (At some point in the above process a new wax ring was inserted - don't know its purpose but I understand it is a standard procedure.)
I have no personal background with this plumber. He was recommended by a friend as being competent and honest - the two qualities I asked my friend about. So, I really know nothing about any guarantees he might make, or how much pride he takes in his work. He said if there was any problem to give him a call. He was friendly, clean, and got the job done. If the toilet still doesn't wobble by Christmas I'll figure he did the job properly. If it starts to wobble again I'll contact him to see his response.
"Cheri" wrote
No, it was a very reasonable price. Check out what his cost is just to step out the door in the morning. He needs a truck, about $15,000 in tools, $5000 in supplies, liability insurance, taxes, billing fees, office expenses, licensing fees, and more. See what you pay in FICA taxes? He pays double that in SE taxes. He had to travel to your place and must be pair for that also.
Tradesmen usually get from $60 to $150 an hour with a minimum of an hour billing
My DH has been self employed for going on 15 years, so I know all about the expenses, trucks, insurance, quarterly taxes, etc., so no need to explain them to *me.* Sometimes, someone like the plumber that came here makes out because it only took him 10 minutes, and sometimes it takes close to an hour for the same rate, that's life. I recently had a large oil company (no not BP) pay me $1000.00 for about ten hours total of record searching floppy discs, printing the info, and sending it on to them. As I said, sometimes it works out. :-)
Cheri
I would have done it for you $200. Cash.
An hour of actual work, and less than $10 in parts. Yes, he DID have to disassemble, and run for parts. For that price, I would have put you in totally new kit inside your toilet, as well as the new flange. I hope he used new bolts.
You could have done the same repair for less than $10. You need to learn DIY'ing. I do hope you watched him so you know how to do it yourself next time.
Steve
visit my blog at
A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.
Probably about what my plumber would charge. You have to consider their traveling time and initial call to evaluate problem and give estimate. Cost and maintenance of truck, insurance and other expenses of plumber must be considered. Couple of years ago, county strapped for money, imposed new $400 license fee on all contractors above what state already requires. All these things add up.
You want to get cheap plumbing done, get some guy working under the table and pay cash.
reply:
OR, if you want to get a beeswax flange seal changed, and entirely change the guts of your own toilet yourself, DO IT YOURSELF! We're not talking plumbing here. We're talking about changing parts. There's no plumbing involved in changing a flange gasket. And not much involved in changing a flange. And absolutely none involved in rebuilding a toilet.
Steve
visit my blog at
A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.
"Steve B" wrote
Suppose a year from now I needed to change the flange, how would I remove the old one easily? Remember, it is made of plastic and glued to the plastic upright pipe that comes up from the sewer line, using the same kind of glue that lawn sprinkler systems use to connect joints and pipes.
I hope I never have to do that, but it sounds like I'd need some tool to fit inside the upright pipe and then cut the pipe. Then, since the pipe would be ending a few inches lower than before, I'd need a way to extend the pipe upwards so the new flange could be installed at the same level as before. (The upright plastic pipe comes up through a hole in the concrete slab, and there is less than an inch of clearance on each side of the pipe and the slab.)
Thanks for whatever ideas on doing this that you can share.
Dremel or Rotozip type rotary tool with a 2" cutting disc on a mandrel (cut inside >out) on the ABS/PVC
Such fittings are available at HD..ask the "old guy"/plumber there..the "kids" dont know anything
Not bad at all. I'm not sure why it took 1.75 hours though. An experienced plumber should be able to do this in 15 minutes, but every job has its complications. Did he caulk around the commode? You could have done it yourself for less than $20, it's a fairly simple task. There are small plastic wedges, made specifically for resting a toilet on an uneven surface to prevent wobble.
Here is what he did, which I reported in an earlier post you may have missed:
The house was built 30 years ago, and the toilet had required no work during that time. One of the two bolts on the toilet which hold it down no longer was attached or firm at the end below the floor. When the toilet was removed it was clear that the original flange had just corroded away, and the hole into which the bolt head fitted was enlarged - so much so that the bolt head could not get a good grip. The old flange was removed, which was the hardest part for the plumber, per his comments. It was made of plastic and I'm not sure how it had been fastened to the upright pipe, which is also plastic. Eventually the old flange was removed. Another plastic flange was then inserted over/into (I couldn't see well enough to tell which) the upright pipe, and glued to it. Then new bolts were inserted into the metal ring that swiveled on the new flange. The toilet was lowered onto the flange/floor, with the bolts sticking through the holes on the base of the toilet. Nuts and washer were applied, and after some shimming to make sure there was no more wobbliness, and after ensuring that the toilet was oriented parallel to the enclosing walls, the nuts were tightened. Then the outside of the base of the toilet was caulked. (At some point in the above process a new wax ring was inserted - don't know its purpose but I understand it is a standard procedure.)
Yes.
It took him a good while to removed the old, corroded flange, and I'm sure he did it faster than I could have done. I wouldn't have even know where the flange stopped and the upright pipe began, so I would be very unsure of myself trying to remove the old flange.
Near the end of the job he made a couple of wedges from some scrap plastic to do just that.
Thanks.
Do exactly what you did here. Research it. Ask questions from people who have done it before. I think I may have discharged without fully being prepared. Did the man jackhammer out your flange, and put a new one, or just exactly what did he do? Or did he just put new bolts and a new wax ring on there, or did you even see what he did? Did you see if the flange was in terribly corroded condition so that he could not just put new bolts and a new wax ring? Yes, getting a flange out that has been there a while can be a booger. But it's done every day all over the world.
Steve
visit my blog at
A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.
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