really old phone lines

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On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:36:47 -0400, "TWayne"

For one thing, it isn't A source, but multiple sources. No way would I be able to remember every little thing.
However, I do remember the latest one. About 2 and a half years ago I bought some 6P6C modular plugs (called RJ12 IIRC) from Lowe's. The instructions on the package describe them being used for up to 3 lines.
Sorry I couldn't help with that. I never even wanted that information (I was using the connectors for something else*), let alone felt a need to keep it around.

I've never seen one for 3 lines, but 2-line adapters seem commonly available here. I'm looking at one now. It has a 6P4C male with 3 female connectors, wired as follows:
first jack (marked L1):
1 - 2- 3 - wired to 3 4 - wired to 4 5 - 6 -
second jack (marked L2):
1 - 2- 3 - wired to 5 4 - wired to 2 5 - 6 -
third jack (marked L1+L2):
1 - 2 - wired to 2 3 - wired to 3 4 - wired to 4 5 - wired to 5 6 -
For some reason the second jack has the connections reversed.

That's wrong, considering what I found in Lowe's (see above). IIRC that's all they sell.

Pure blue? What sort of impure blue did you see?

* - holiday light control, which I've posted about elsewhere and isn't really on topic here.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
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On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:26:52 -0500, Mark Lloyd
[snip]

[snip]
I haven't found anything with those particular instructions (which were real ones)., but have found 3 items all of which say "for 1, 2, or 3 lines:"
6-conductor wire (red/green/yellow/black/blue/white): Philips UL/CMX round wire (there's no part number on this spool, maybe it came off with the customer annoyance device)
6P6C plugs: Ideal 85-345
6P6C wall plate with F-connector: Philips PH60627
--
Mark Lloyd
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Aw, he can cite ME. I did it for >30 years.

RJ11 RJ14 RJ21X RJ31 RJ45 Yadda Yadda
Don't believe anything you read and only half of what you see. (Will Rogers. <http://www.willrogers.org/ )
I read it on the net so it MUST be true. <sigh>
Situation:
40-year-old home wired with four conductor "JK" wire. (red/green & yellow/black)
Customer wants a second POTS line in his home office.
The telco installer connects the new line to the yellow/black pair of the quad wire at the demarc/SNI/D.
At the "far end", if the yellow/black pair is not already connected to the formerly-one-line block, the installer has two choices, either one will be dictated by the customer's need.
If the customer has a two-line telephone and wishes both lines to be delivered from the wall outlet (jack) to the phone on a SINGLE base cord, it must be a two-line cord - four conductors.
Wired thusly, the jack is configured as an RJ14. It's the SAME jack (four pins) but the outer, two pins have been activated with Line 2.
If the customer wishes the new line to be a stand-alone line, the installer will ADD a jack/RJ11. Red/green will feed one and yellow/black the other.
I did it so often I could do it in my sleep. Some unfriendly coworkers would argue that I occasionally did. <sigh>

Where do you GET this info? Man...
White/blue is the color of Pair 1 - yes - the FIRST pair, in any cable. Mere single-family homes since about the late sixties were wired with such cable. Such cable is readily available at Home Depot and Lowes.
The white/blue pair is connected to the green/red lugs on a common block (jack/outlet). White/orange (line/pair 2) is connected to the black/yellow lugs on the same jack.

Aw, we have pure blue here, too. ...in the sky.

Mostly, yes.
The fourth conductor, to make a second PAIR, was added by the Bell System many, MANY years ago to facilitate either dial light current, a spare pair in the event of failure of the first, or the need for a second line.
Dial light transformers were introduced in the late 50s or early 60s to illuminate the lamps inside the (then) new Princess<r> telephone. The Trimline<r> phone followed shortly with an illuminated dial. When dial light became "line powered", it was no longer necessary for a dedicated transformer somewhere in the house - the ORIGINAL wall wart.
There are probably hundreds of thousands of such transformers still in service today - virtually unused.
--
:)
JR

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On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:38:06 -0500, Jim Redelfs

Thanks for providing confirmation. I was wondering why there were so many 2-line adapters and other things for that "nonexistent" wiring scheme.
[snip]

Those can not be lit all the time, but only when the phone is "on hook" since there is very little power available before activating the telco's off-hook detection.

I never had one of those phones, but when I moved into my first apartment (an old one) someone had left one of those wall-warts, still connected to the yellow/black wires to the phone jack. I still have the thing. It's beige (dirty white) in color, made by Western Electric, and has screw terminals marked "SEC: 6-8V 1.75VA".
--
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TWayne wrote:

very house, where the kid's bedrooms were wired with yellow and black to the center conductors. Pre-cellphone era, Mama Bell heavily sold getting a second line for the kids. Was also quite common with roommates sharing a house (like at college) and wanting private lines to talk to their sweeties, and to make sure there was no question about who pays LD charges. (Back in school, I used to do a lot of moonlight phone wiring for young ladies. Nothing illegal, mind you, just putting outlets where they wanted them.)
-- aem sends...
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I didn't mean it was illegal; I SAID, the TELCO will not wire a residential RJ-11 that way. Read!
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TWayne wrote:

ladies steal service.
As to my place- Ma bell 1960's 4-color non-twisted prewire, ma bell fittings inside, and a ma bell demarc with the yellow and black neatly plugged into the second rj11 on the customer-accessible side, hooked up to the second pair on the 1978-vintage drop. Smells like telco to me. A lot of the houses where I ran across it WERE wired in the pre-modular era, with the old 4-pin jacks or hardwired plates, the lovely round ones. Most had been 'upgraded' to modular at some point. (But the phones still had build dates from the 50s and 60s on them, in many cases. I miss real phones....)
-- aem sends...
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Hehehehehe! I miss talking to those that REMEMBER "real" phones!
Your second line on the yellow/black is right on. BTDT.
--
:)
JR

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They did, and still do. Sorry.
--
:)
JR

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snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

In 1960's era houses they often used three conductor cable, and the yellow wire was for lighted phone dials, via a transformer. Then they went to four wire cable, with the red and green for the primary line, and black and yellow for the secondary line. Often they'd install multiple RJ11 jacks with only the inner pair used for each line, but often they'd hook the black and yellow to the outer contacts, and the red and green to the inner contacts.
You can often find two line phones that connect with a single cable, pinned out that way.
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Assuming it's a normal analog phone system that's no problem. You only need the red and green wires: The other two aren't used. When the phone isn't being used, there is arounc 48V DC between the wires *red negative w/r to the green). When the phone is picked up, that voltage drops to around 9 to 15 volts, depending on a few things. Ringing voltage is nominally 90 Vac riding on top of 48V DC so it's capable of giving a person a really good kick if you'r handling the wires when the phone rings! So, disconnect the wires from the point where they enter the house; there should be a box there where they can be disconnected. If not, then leave a phone off hook while you do the work. That will set off an alarm in the central office and the phone will loudly complain for awhile, but it stops after about 30 seconds and then the central office just removes power from your phone lines. In this case, it might take up to a few minutes of the phone being back on hook before the central office system gives you back your voltage and dialtone. Normally it's a pretty quick change but some older offices can take quite awhile to return your service.
Test the phone after installing hte box. Try dialing a number from another phone too. If the new phone "tinkles" when the other phone dials out, then just reverse the red and green wires and it'll stop the tinkling. It's not unusual for the red & green wires to be reversed in old installations like you have.
HTH
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If you have one line, then the voice comes in through green and red, tip and ring respectively. The yellow and black are for other things - a second line (if you have one) or for the dial light on fones like the Princess which is powered by a transformer plugged into an outlet near the fone. Modern fones don't need the yellow wire for the dial light, these take the power from the green and red wires. You'll want to have another extention off the hook when you work on wiring, because the ringing voltage is 90VAC at 20Hz. In other words, when somebody tries to call you you'll get a painful shock.
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