Range clock - Disconnect it!

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Yeah. We need more laws.
Steve
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SteveB wrote:

Regulation is not a bad thing.
It's very hard for a company to do something for the long term good when doing that puts it at a short term competitive disadvantage. That's why regulations that are evenly applied to all competitors work. And why voluntary targets don't.
We've had 7 years of corporate free reign under George W Bush. Few would think the results are impressive. Fewer still would believe that we have made progress toward solving the problems that loom.
Jeff

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Depends entirely on how its done.

You havent established that it does with that last.

Sometimes they do, sometimes they dont.

Sometimes they do, sometimes they dont.

Lie.
Most arent qualfied to have an opinion on that particular question.

Irrelevant to what is feasible with regulation.
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SteveB wrote:

Actually no. Current estimates that make sense if you do the math show that 9% of electrical power is wasted just due to cheap power supplies. For some reason a lot of people just don't see how little things add up.
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The most obvious example is raw meat which you want to start roasting while you are still out of the house, so its cooked when you show up later.
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You, apparently, have never met my wife. If it is in the refrigerator or in the oven, the term "shelf life" does not apply because mysterious physics surrounding both. It will magically last forever, or change color and texture to become some new food.
Or, at least that's what she says.
I finally had to say, "If you can't tell me how old this is, I'm not going to eat it."
I still have to say that a lot.
Her mother is worse.
Steve
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If nothing else, I use the timer for the self-cleaning cycle. And before someone starts telling me how much electricity the cycle uses, it's a lot cheaper than a container of oven cleaner. And old-fashioned household "tips" like leaving a pan of ammonia in the oven overnight don't work - I've tried that sort of thing. Not to mention how much easier it is to set it and forget it than it is to clean the oven by hand.
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Lou wrote: ...

...
Since I was the one who pointed it out, don't have any statistic on either numbers of people who do use it or an extensive list of all the possible uses, but certainly it gets used for things like starting the roast for Sunday dinner, etc., quite frequently.
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In the 21 years we had our old oven we never used the timed start. I don't remember if the one before that had that feature or not. Never had the need. One of my criteria for our new range was minimal electronics. Don't need them, don't want them. I expect the Bertazzoni will last 50 years with maybe an igniter of the convection fan needing replacement in that time. That's OK though as I'm not going to last another 50 years.
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Different strokes...that's why they make more than one.
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Trouble is, it's damn near impossible to buy anything today WITHOUT all the bells and whistles that crap out on you soon after purchase, creating an obscenely inflated estimate for repair or replacing.
Just give me the simple stuff, please.
Steve
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SteveB wrote:

Well, it's been going since '84 so far...
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Nope, not with an electric range where the time you have one of the plates on for has a MUCH more important effect on the electricity used.

They aint talking about the clock in a range.

Pity that the clock in a range being discussed cant add up when there is only one of them.
And the range takes vastly more power when you turn one of the plates on so that completely swamps the power the clock uses.
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On 6/1/2008 1:43 PM Rod Speed spake thus:

The fact that the burners use a lot more electricity doesn't change the fact that things like clocks, wall warts, etc., still use small amounts of electricity, and when added together constitute a significant fraction of energy usage.
The point is that if the clock isn't serving any useful purpose, then disconnecting it to save electricity (an admittedly small amount, but see above) is a good thing to do.
--
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David Nebenzahl wrote:

Has anyone thought about how much wasted electricity we'd be saving now if the utilities could have forseen the eventual spike in energy cost and used heavier conductors for their runs?
I'd expect that the added cost of the copper or aluminum needed to reduce resistive losses in all those distribution wires by making them thicker would get paid off pretty fast at today's fuel costs.
(It's a good thing Edison didn't win out, or we'd still be distributing electricity at 110 volts DC throughout our power systems, with even greater transmission losses. <G>)
Jeff
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Jeff Wisnia wrote:

They generally deal with that by increasing system voltage levels and keeping the voltage as high as possible until they reach the point of utilization. For example the two transmission lines that come into my area used to be 120kV and last year they increased them to 240kV.

DC high voltage transmission lines have lower losses and are less expensive to build. They use solid state convertors at each end. 500 kV was the max for a while and I know the Canadians have a line in service for at least 20 years that operates at 735 kV DC and I read that the Chinese recently started construction of a 800 kV DC transmission line.
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On 6/1/2008 3:17 PM George spake thus:

Wow; so that old Tesla-Edison debate *isn't* settled science like everyone wants us to believe, eh?
Got any good reading links on this? I'm curious. And, in a nutshell, why does DC have lower losses? (Not disputing, just curious.)
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AC has added capacitive and inductive losses, added to the resistive losses of DC.
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wqwDavid Nebenzahl wrote:

Well Edison wanted to transmit at the the same voltage it was going to be used at. AC made it possible to transform to a higher voltage, and less loss because there is less i^2 * r loss (double voltage = half current for same power) I think Tesla would approve of the current generation HVDC lines, remember the end distribution is still AC.

I'm sure there's a good bit on the net.
I'm curious. And, in a nutshell, why

Advances in semiconductors and circuit breakers made HVDC possible.
You have a higher peak voltage with AC, so you will have more corona loss. For underground cable, you'll have much less capacitive loss.
For long lines HVDC has a lot of advantages. Higher capacity, lower losses and a smaller footprint because you have less lines.
Also, it makes it easier to sync power grids as the different power generators don't all have to be in the same phase. That can be a big issue and is why restarting a down generator or grid can take a long time.
Jeff

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George wrote:

Whoa! Prove it with simple Ohm's law. If it is HV, how heavy is the cable gonna be? Is it EASY to generate HV DC, I mean pure DC?
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