On Sun 01 Jun 2008 01:48:42p, Anthony Matonak told us...
That's only half of the reason to leave it connected. Most modern ranges
have an electronic clock combined with the controls to set the temperature
and turn the oven on and off. You disconnect that and you won't ever bake
Now, if you range is 30 years old, that's another story (usually).
Apart from the clock/timer on a range, most other "always on" devices have
a reason for always being on. If unplugged or disconnected, you generally
have to reset all the options every time you plug the device in. Good
examples are VCR and DVD recorders, coffeemakers with programmable cycles,
almost anything that stores settings.
Yes, you're paying for the convenience of using that energy, but it's
terribly inconvenient if you don't.
I think if we all disconnected all the lights we have that run 24/7 and all
these little clocks that we could make as much difference as AlGore does
with his global warming theories. If anyone is concerned about how much
electricity their clock uses, contact me, and I will send you a quarter for
a year's usage.
Hmm, I see you've snipped all context to make your point.
The real point is that phantom power loss is not negligible and
accounts for 5% to 10% worldwide. Higher in more developed economies.
Many appliance use more power "off" than on (collectively).
Now, you will probably object to any regulation that would level the
playing field and require all manufacturers to reduce phantom drain.
And that's a real shame as the technology already exists and the return
on investment is quick.
You can't consume your way out of every problem. You certainly would
rather do nothing about global warming. It's funny how some people can
deny the human component of global warming and yet have no problem with
the rationale of going to war in Iraq.
Also note that I've never advocated removing the clock from the range.
From the US department of Energy:
"Many appliances continue to draw a small amount of power when they
are switched off. These "phantom" loads occur in most appliances that
use electricity, such as VCRs, televisions, stereos, computers, and
kitchen appliances. In the average home, 75% of the electricity used to
power home electronics is consumed while the products are turned off.
This can be avoided by unplugging the appliance or using a power strip
and using the switch on the power strip to cut all power to the
It would seem the only government office you believe in is the OVP.
You are arguing with someone who would rather hurl insults than ever
give a reasoned argument.
There's better things to do with the few minutes of your life than to
waste it on Rod. It's not about right or wrong, it's about the futility
of arguing with an intractable and simple mindset.
Take a few minutes to read his posting history and see if he doesn't
belong in the killfile, not that I advocate killfiling but Rod makes
such a good argument in favor.
That is not the same as "appliances use more power 'off' than on."
The power usage rate is certainly less during standby than during
regular usage. Duty cycle of off time vs. on time can certainly
mean that an appliance *may* use more energy over time during standby, but
only because it is in standby for much longer periods. When dealing
with kitchen appliances, the standby current is very low relative to
in use current because most kitchen appliances tend to be fairly big
energy users. I doubt the LED clock on my stove uses as much energy
in 1 year as one burner uses to boil a pot of water in 5 minutes.
The big hits on standby power are going to be VCRs, computers, TVs
and the like. Those tend to not use a lot of power when in use, so
the relative difference between standby and in use is not as much to
All true but it's still hard to believe the "average house" over 75% in
standby, even for electronics. Maybe I have a hard time thinking that
because I'm sure my house is far below average in numbers of these
devices so I suspect my estimate of "average" is skewed as compared to
the sample mean.
Yeah, I find that a little hard to believe too, but I only have
one TV in my house. So, I'm probably not "average" either in that
regard. In my kitchen the only things that use any standby power
are the stove, microwave, and coffee maker. The coffee maker has
a couple of LEDs that stay on, pointlessly, all the time but it
certainly uses more energy making a pot of coffee in the morning
than those LEDs use the other 23.5 hours of the day. The same
goes for the microwave and stove clocks. The microwave has a
clock display that I disable mostly because I don't need 4 clocks
in my kitchen, but I'm sure the clock circuit is still running and
it just doesn't display the time. The stove and coffee maker both
have clocks which can't be disabled, but again, any one of those
use more energy in daily usage than the standby uses the entire
rest of the time, by a wide margin.
The problem w/ the coffee maker we currently have is it thinks it has to
get a second fill ready to brew any second so preheats the other water
w/ no way to disable this "feature". Not only is it a power waster, the
water level is always low from boil-off so have to add extra to compensate.
The microwave is combined in the range so nothing additional there and
it's mechanical display w/ no processor boards, there's a clock radio w/
its display, but that's it for electronic gadgets in kitchen.
That's not what the article said. This is: "In the average home, 75% of the
electricity used to power home electronics is consumed while the products are
That's not saying that 75% of the total electricity use in the home is used to
power electronic equipment on standby. It's saying that 75% of the electricity
used to power electronic equipment -- which is surely only a fairly small
fraction of total use -- is consumed while the equipment is on standby. Seems
reasonable to me.
That isnt relevant to the total power use of the house tho.
And is dubious with some of the home electronics like TVs and
computers, which just happen to be the main uses of power in
the average home even with just the home electronics.
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