I am planning a Kitchen remodel and need to get rid of the hot water oil fired baseboard heat. Is there a in floor radiant heat alternative? I plan on redoing floor with ceramic tile. Currently have 2 layers vinyl over plywood sub floor over joists. All of kitchen is assessable from basement. I know there are systems for concrete floors but what about this situation? Appreciate any help or suggestions.
Thanks Ron
Yes there is, but some things need to be answered first. Do you know how thick the plywood subfloor is. If it's not thick enough to route the appropriate grooves into you will need to add a layer. One manufacturer I used had flooring with the correct groove already in place, then there is a thin metal reflective insert, and then the plastic tubing element fits into the groove, then the flooring. The tubing is push to fit on a manifold with pressure fittings. Easy, pretty quick, and sort of DIY. Check these out:
On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 14:07:02 GMT, "David Babcock" wrote (with possible editing):
Or you could simply install radiant piping against the subfloor from the basement. Normally, you would then install foil backed insulation with the shiny side up. Since this heats the subfloor/floor combination, it is usually installed with mixing valves (hot water plus some amount of return) which is then set at the appropriate temperature. That temperature depends upon the composition of the floor.
You have allowed for the height difference for what your going to do,,,,,, Right?
Tubing is going to be 3/8 to 1/2 and the tile will add another 1/2 to 1 inch depending on what you buy. The details where this flooring ends could be a bear. Good luck, I am going to attempt this in my bathrooms but I will be scoring the concrete. Let us know how it turns out
You ain't got a clue. It CAN be DIY, but don't follow Dave's instructions.
Radiant can be done easily in your kitchen, from your description.
Some of these guys can help you:
instructions.
Don't have a clue? Well tell that to the contractor that did a lot of the floors in some of the homes I own. Done exactly as I mentioned. In those houses with the second and third floors unheated, (other than fireplaces, and ten foot intricate plaster ceilings there was no alternative within budget and esthetics that met my requirements. Oh and by the way the contractors name........Trethewey Bros. Plumbing
manufacturer
And?
manufacturer
If you are talking about Warmboard, that's a different story. I thought you were talking about using a router to cut grooves in an existing floor.
"HeatMan" wrote in message news:5GpHb.11937$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
alternative?
You need to read better, it clearly states "Do you know how thick the plywood subfloor is. If it's not thick enough to route the appropriate grooves into you will need to add a layer." I have used Warmboard in a couple newer houses, but the houses we did, which were three old victorian summer houses here on Cape Cod, I was converting the three seperate floors into single floor condo's. Having already dealt with the hysterical commission to convert the homes, I was allowed to do so as long as there were no structural or environmental changes visible. The homes all had high ceilings, ornate baseboards, and ornate floors. No baseboards, no holes in floors, no visible changes in any wall, floor, or ceiling. The only way to add heat to these structures was by radiant floor heating. After painstakingly marking, and documenting the floors, removing all the hardwood along with the inlays, or parquet was next. Since there could not be any additional height to the new floor we had to make up a system to route the appropriate width and depth grooves into the existing subfloor. Then we layed down reflective panels that overlapped the groove by a couple inches, lay down a continuous run of tubing, and then replace the flooring piece by piece. The rest is of no concern. That's what we did. Expensive? Not really other than the floor labor. Time consuming? You bet. But all the condos sold within a month of completion. You might recognize the name Trethewey, it's the same family of brothers that Rich Trethewey of T.O.H. hails from. Most of the ideas came from him, although most of the physical work came from me.
Should I be impressed?
environmental
completion.
Nah, just keep being the a$$ you are.
Remember, someone other than you asked a question, I answered it with information from past experience that has worked very well for me and others. Your brilliant response was "You ain't got a clue." A more intelligent use of the english language I may have never seen. And when I tried to explain to you what was done, and by someone that has as much and probably more experience than you, you come back with more intelligent conversation. To which I would say, Yes, you should be impressed. The Trethewey Bros. company is a highly respected plumbing and heating contractor now known here in America, and abroad. As in your first response you offered nothing of assistance, just an ignorant statement about something you obviously had no experience with. Just because you didn't fully read the response, and then don't agree with what I had to say, is really no reason to denigrate someone else's response. Simply offer your idea constructively as someone trying to help, or don't. Otherwise be quiet.
Just because you have dealt with Trethewey Plumbing does not mean I am impressed. As much as I like Rich, he is no different from any other American. As a matter of fact, the only Trethwey listed as a member of the RPA (see below) is as a trade associate, not a dealer/contractor. Rich would be just as an unknown as 99.98% of the contractors out there if it weren't for TOH. Can we agree on that?
Well, are you a member of the RPA? Have you been to manufacturer training classes? Do you actually have field experience with radiant systems beyond your own house(s)?
I have all the above, as well as a member of the RPA.
I did supply an answer the first time that was a little quick and without a lot of real reading of your response. That I will openly admit. But your case (much like you) was special. The OP was looking for answers for his house, not an historical renovation. In 99% of the times, your answer would be grossly incorrect.
The OP said he had an open basement, perfect for the extruded aluminum panels for the radiant. There is no need for him to use a router to cut grooves in his floors. That you suggest he do that is inexcusable; as that is too time consuming for most people.
This discussion reminds me of a similar one I had with an ME (mechanical engineer). This gent was correct in every aspect of the world, but he knew too much for the average person. We got into a lengthy discussion about the assorted relief valves that are available in the world. He thought (as I do sometimes) that everyone knew as much as he did. The simple end to our discussion was that the average homeowner has no use for 99% of the pressure relief valves out in the market.
Let's leave this as gentlemen and carry it no further. All we are doing is wasting bandwidth and annoying the other people out there.
Can I buy you a beverage of your choice?
Thank You for all the info and links in your replies. You all gave me some good info and ideas. I could go the way from under or on top. All ajoining rooms have hardwood floors so I want to level the litchen to that level anyway so another layer of plywood or one of those systems with a pregrooved board would work ok Thanks again.
I'm going to install Plates under the new hardwood floor, run the tubing and control it all through outdoor reset.
Gonna be a nice system.
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