Hi Nate, Yes, I personally did the check for natural-gas leaks.
Bill slathered on the TPE cream, taking care to leave the last two threads bare, and we didn't see any bubbles with a solution of Dawn and water brushed on with a toothbrush.
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One minor question we had for the natural gas line was whether or not to kink the gas hose in an S-shaped curve to trap sediments before they enter the thermostat.
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Do you arrange the gas hose in any particular manner?
Also, does anyone know the significance of the red aluminum ring around the gas hose? Does it have any meaning?
That brings up the first (of many) questions that arose when we replaced our hot water heater (with your help) yesterday ...
I agree, while replacing the altruistic anode is a "good thing" ...
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The problem I found is ...
Even Superman couldn't would have a tough time removing mine ...
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Given it took a pipe wrench plus a huge cheater bar to remove the anode with the water heater removed and blocked on the ground ... and given that any in-place plumbing and vent ducts would have severely hampered access ... and given that a water heater isn't rigidly "mounted" ... I wonder ...
Can anyone really expect to remove the anode when it needs inspection? Why don't they provide TWO HOLES so you can add a second anode when needed?
The Energy Guide label for this 0.63 Energy Factor water heater:
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Says the thermal energy factor comparison is: This model uses 238 therms per year. Uses least energy: 242 therms Uses most energy: 272 therms Only models with FHRs of 87 to 99 gallons are used in this scale. This model's estimated yearly operating cost is: $216 dollars Based on a 2004 US Government national average cost of 0.9100 per therm. (41,045 btu/0.63)($0.9100/therm * 1 therm/100,000 btu) x 365 = $216/year
However, my estimated thermal energy factor is closer to: (41,045 btu/0.63)($1.21106/therm * 1 therm/100,000 btu) x 365 = $288/year
So, the Energy Guide label is off on energy costs by a whopping 75 percent! (I think.) Donna PS: I never know whether the best calculation is this way or that? $216 / $288 * 100 = 75% or $288 / $216 * 100 = 133%
"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" wrote in message
I appears that you re-used the flex gas line. That should be replaced with any new installation and would be a code violation in most, if not all, places.
From the photo, it looks as though you used on SS line and one copper line. If so, that is a sure sign of a hack job. Meantime, start thinking about replacing all of that galvanized pip with either copper or pex.
Thank you! That was another of my questions! (strangely I have more questions after the job than before).
Looking at the nicely packaged yellow gas lines, we asked EVERYONE in the stores if we should replace and they all (multiple stores) said nobody replaces the gas line. They said leave it so we don't introduce a leak.
So, purely for safety reasons, we didn't replace the gas line (using the store logic).
But, we would have been happy to replace the gas line as the costs for quality parts is miniscule in this job, given the major cost for the heater itself.
Where do I look up our local code requirements anyway? I went to our town site and saw they have an office but nothing on the web.
It was disgusting how corroded the *inside* of the galvanized pipes were!
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We had to reuse the 3/4 inch galvanized elbows.
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Why? Because we just couldn't get them off no matter how much we twisted!
We had to put Jack's stands against the wall just to hold it back.
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The horizontal pipe kept bending and twisting with every application of force.
Three questions came up that we'd like to ask:
We could easily twist the horizontal galvanized pipe; but how would we replace this corroded pipe since it apparently connects to an elbow
*inside* the wall?
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Could/should we have just hack sawed the horizontal galvanized pipe and rethreaded somehow (it's leaking very slightly from where the corroded threads meet the new steel nipple)?
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Is our cold water shut off valve too close to the hot vent flue for safety?
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Please advise as this job brought up more questions than answers! Donna
I watched Bill crank it like crazy so it's certainly tight enough! :)
We think the threads on the 50-year old galvanized steel elbow are clogged up and that's what is causing the slow dribble out of the cold water inlet pipe.
We now have the confidence to tackle this job - we just were unsure how to remove the elbow or cut the pipe or remove the pipe from the wall.
We'll do that when we figure out how to fix the slight leak above.
It's cold.
Our house was built in 1958!
We feel confident in swapping out the gas flex if that's what we should do. Do others feel we must do that (we don't mind as parts costs are miniscule).
We just want to do the job right.
Thanks for the advice. One thing that is still undone is the overflow vent (we'll ask separately).
Good point. We should remove the anode every year so that it *can* be removed when it comes time to replace it with a similarly sized one.
One thing we still need to do is attach the drainage pipe from the Temperature & Pressure valve to near the floor in case of an overflow.
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Is the drain pipe mandatory (can we just leave it off)?
It seems to me a drain pipe *should* be mandatory because you don't want hot water spewing forth at eye level. However, due to configuration changes, even with the taller tank, the old drainage tube is too long and too close to the tank so we can't just screw the old one in. We have to modify it somehow to make it shorter and move it away from the wood base.
QUESTION: How many inches ABOVE the garage floor should it end?
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If we can end ABOVE the 18 inch wooden platform, that would be easier. If we have to end six or so inches above the garage cement floor, that would necessitate an elbow to get past the wooden base but it seems a horizontal line can clog causing a safety hazard.
I googled but did not find any specs as to HOW MANY INCHES above either the floor or better yet, the wooden platform, that a drain pipe must terminate.
We had to make many compromises we felt a plumber would make also! (tell us if they would have done this differently after reading why below)
The reason for the flex copper cold water input is that there wasn't room for anything else. Given the shortest copper flex line we could find, we couldn't fit the dialectric unions. The shortest stainless steel lines we could find at multiple stores wouldn't bend enough.
We had to mate the cold water inlet's galvanized steel elbow to a steel nipple to a bronze ball valve to the copper flex line to the dialectric nipple screwed into the inlet of teh steel tank.
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On the hot water side, likewise, there wasn't room for the copper flex plus two dialectric unions, but at least we could mate steel directly to steel by going from the galvanized steel elbow to a steel nipple to the steel pipe to the dialectric nipple screwed into the steel tank.
KEY QUESTION: Would a plumber have done it differently? How?
MINOR QUESTION: Why do some stainless steel lines have brass fittings yet they all say they are for mating steel to steel?
Given how corroded the steel pipes were (I can't believe my kids drank water from those pipes!), maybe we'll try to replace all our plumbing when the weather warms up (Bill is on the roof right now doing the shingles which blew off in the last storm).
It seems like an easy job for the piping under the crawl space.
But it seems difficult for the piping hidden in the wall. (Do we have to rip the walls apart?)
And the pipes under the driveway to the main water meter. (Do we have to break open the driveway?)
Is replacing the galvanized pipes with copper a do-it-yourself job Billa nd I can do together?
That's not corrosion. It's mineral scale. Stone, basically.
An 18" or 24"pipe wrench taking a bite on that pipe would have prevented that. You need to see how a plumber does it. Those ells would come off easily enough. Don't need jackstands, though that was creative, I must say. Good for you. You have initiative. BTW, older pipes were sometimes assembled with a hardening dope. Whacking the joint repeatedly with a hammer usually breaks the bond.
If the flow is ok, don't worry about it. You never saw inside that pipe, and it may very well be fairly unrestricted. Scale forms more at fittings, where the water changes direction, or becomes turbulent. If the pipe connects to an ell inside the wall, you would have to knock out the wall to get a bite on the ell with a wrench to prevent the possibility of breaking a pipe. If the pipe goes into a tee (for example the run continues to feed elsewhere) you can probably just twist it out. Just remember that one has to continue replacing if anything screws up.
Most likely you didn't crank it in enough, or the ell threads were fouled with hardened dope. That's a good reason to replace ells. OTOH the external pipe threads can often be cleaned of old dope and inserted further than before into the fitting, making up for any corrosion. If the leak doesn't stop, you'll have to redo that. There may be remedies for the leak, but I can't recommend any.
Still don't know why you used a lever valve. The least you could have done was to install the valve with lever away from the vent, 90 degrees rotated from where it is. I doubt it's an issue though, unless the valve has plastic that can melt. See how hot it gets after a heater run.
Except for the leak, you did fine. Don't overthink it. Galvanized pipes can easily last 50 years. The pipes in my house are that old and in fine shape, but perhaps restricted a bit with scale. If you decide to replace them with copper or PEX, you can no doubt do that yourself, since you are willing to study how. It will be tougher than a water heater though. Somebody mentioned the gas flex you used, and you should be absolutely certain you've done that safely. I have used only black pipe for gas, so don't know about the flex fittings, except I use the new, certified ones when I replace a range. There was a batch of faulty gas flex hoses installed on ranges that caused some explosions/deaths, so check into that too.
There are more questions now, after having done the job, than there were in the beginning, even though I read a dozen how to's, I posted my step-by-step guide, I read a half-dozen PDFs on specifications, etc.
It seems all the required information is not in any one place (yet).
For example, unanswered questions which remain are:
Q1: Can we terminate the drain pipe above the wooden base (easier) or must we terminate (how many) inches above the cement floor (necessitating a short elbowed horizontal run)?
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Q2: Is it a code requirement to replace the incoming yellow gas lines?
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Q3: Since the old drain valve (predictably) snapped in half (causing most of the installation problems we saw),
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since Sears personnel said the drain valve can not be removed, do you really remove and replace the new drain valve with a brass one (we opted not because the store said it was unremovable)?
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Q5: How *tight* should the earthquake straps be (the originals were loose)?
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Q6: How much space should be left between the walls and the heater?
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Q7: Must we use a sheet-metal screw or is hand tight (it's very tight) good enough for the vent flue?
If you try to remove it next year, you should be able to do it easily. It might be a two person job, but even on my 20-year old old water heater I could do it. I did need an appropriately sized socket (I think 1-1/16" or 1-1/8"? I forget) a heavy 3/4" drive breaker bar and a 36" long "cheater pipe," but it came out. The second person is to hold the tank while you're reefing on it, and it helps to leave the tank mostly full of water to add weight (but make sure that the water is below the level of the T&P valve, so it doesn't shoot out when you finally remove the anode.) I did have some concerns about cracking the bung off the tank, but I figured it was one of those things, if it broke it needed to be replaced anyway. I got lucky and it didn't. A new tank should not have this issue.
Putting some pipe dope or pipe tape on the anode's threads will help keep it from corroding so between that and R&Ring it every year it shouldn't be a major issue. The dope/tape will not cause any problems with nonconductivity, enough of the threads will bite through the dope/ tape to provide a solid electrical connection.
Nope, there are only a couple basic styles. I wouldn't worry about it until it shows signs of getting close to the wire.
yes. There are two considerations - whether you have a hex head or combo style anode and whether or not you have restricted overhead space. If you have enough room to pull the anode completely out without bending it you can use a standard one. If you don't you will need to buy a slightly more expensive segmented one (basically just a standard anode turned down every foot or so to allow it to be bent and straightened) I bought mine from waterheaterrescue.com simply because the only other source I could find for magnesium replacement anodes was direct from Rheem and WHR had a better price.
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