Questions About Dowsing For Water

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So you yourself haven't tried it either?
Harry K
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wrote:

I'm not saying it works and I'm not saying it doesn't but the way it was explained to me by my witcher was that it does not actually find water, it finds the fissures underground that are likely to be carrying water. In this is correct then it would not work on boxes of water. My driller's attitude is basically that, given the choices, well witching is more reliable than any current scientific methods. I held by breath, paid the $150, and got a good well.
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Ulysses wrote: ...

I have no idea whether that assertion is anything but that particular person's opinion (that is, is that a consensus amongst "those knowledgable in the field"?). Even if so, that assumption is dependent again on local hydrology characteristics--there are many places that don't have fissures as a feature of their aquifers just as there are places where the existence of a fissure doesn't mean there's any water to flow through it.

he's willing to pay for. There are certainly techniques that have pretty good chance of determining the presence of water but they tend to be expensive and instrumentation/equipment intensive so residential wells can rarely justify the expense.
OTOH, bring in Schlumberger or Halliburton and they can likely tell you what you want to know if you have deep enough pockets... :)
--
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On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 09:01:41 -0700, "Ulysses"

That's the typical cop out - can't say for sure how it works or anything else factual about it but somehow "they" just KNOW it works and no amount of failure will change their mind. So how does it "find" these fissures? What's the physics involved? And I can guarantee that if your witcher thinks it's fissures that Randi would be happen to create a test of fissures. Just dig some trenches and then put plywood over the whole thing. But wait, I can hear the objections now,... it will work for "fissures" that are hundreds of feet below the surface and covered by 100 feet of dirt, but somehow it won't work for surface fissures covered by plywood. You really should go read Randis' book "Flim-Flam". This same nonsense is trotted out by every deluded "expert" in dousing, mind reading, psychic healing, etc and they ALL fail when tested under conditions that don't allow them to just ignore their failures, i.e. controlled conditions.
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wrote:

If Randis can somehow manufacture granite fissures then I suppose it would be a legitimate test. At least that's what I imagine they are around here. I agree with you that if someone says they can dowse for water and can't find hidden water then they are not reputable. Perhaps they could use one of those sound-echo gizmos that uses a small explosion and is then able to "see" what's underground. They could then precisely locate some fissures and see if a witcher can find them. But, to be fair, I'm not certain I understand exactly what my witcher said he was finding so there may be more to it. I'm just sure he said he wasn't actually detecting water. About all he really seemed to be doing was trying to determine the best place to drill. My driller did not want to waver from the witcher's marker flags by even a foot or two. He would have been happy to if I had insisted cause, after all, I was paying for it. It would have only taken a few more feet of drilling to exceed what I paid the witcher.
Around here people will decide whether or not to buy a piece of land based upon what a witcher tells them. How else ya gonna tell? I suppose you could hire some geologists and a bunch of expensive equipment but it'll probably run into the thousands of dollars. I have not looked into the reliability of the high voltage DC probe type water finders but the word-to-mouth conclusion is that it doesn't work. I might try it if they guaranteed I'd get back the $950 they used to charge (probably has gone up) if I didn't find water. And even if they did that would add $800 to the price of the well.
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wrote:

Well, I don't give anyone who spells their name with an "i" at the end any credibility. Are you two dating again?
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wrote:

Nice cop out. Very typical of all those who claim they can "do it" yet turn up their nose at the million dollars. Are you still trying to get thru 5th grade?
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wrote:

Nope. 60, and happily retired.
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That's not true. All the dowser needs to do to claim the prize is to have a success rate that is significantly higher than expected by chance alone.

I think you have that backwards: the proponents should show evidence that it works, before claiming that it does.
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On Jun 22, 4:36am, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

Thanks for the admission that you haven't.
Harry K
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Whether I've tried it or not is beside the point. The burden of proof is on those making the claim. So far, despite repeated attempts, *nobody* has *ever* been able to demonstrate, under controlled conditions, that dowsing works any better than simple guessing. If you think it does work, then all you need to to is demonstrate it to become an instant millionaire.
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On Jun 22, 8:25am, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

Obviouslyh you aren't bothering to _read_ what I wrote. Note the bit about being a 'semiskeptic'.
I guarantee you that if you try it and you are one for whom it works it will scare the hell out of you the first time. You will also spend a lot of time trying to figure out just how _you_ are making the rods move. I have never been able to do it.
Harry K
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On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:27:24 -0700 (PDT), harry k

If you can't make them move you are holding them too tightly. Anyone can "witch". Just cut up a coat hanger and make your two L's. Then go play with it. Aim it at the dogs water dish, the rods will cross. It's elementary... if you start out with the requirement that you need to maintain them pointing forward and parallel to each other (and you don't hold them too tight), then the slightest movement of your hands will cause them to swing one way or the other. The amount of hand movement is almost imperceptible. It is VERY easy to delude yourself that you are not doing it. I've played with them and found that IF you are just playing around that it will SEEM like it finds water when you KNOW where the water is. It's very eerie on one level. But it won't actually find water when you don't know where it is. It's been tested over and over and the "experts" always fail.
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Quite obviously I *have*. You keep writing things like "I often wonder if any of the skeptics have actually tried using a couple bent wires. They work for me ... they work for at least half of anyone who tries it." and "Have I found stuff using the rods? Yes" and "the RODS WILL MOVE".

The phrases above are not those of even a partial skeptic. They are those of a true believer, one who's swallowed the entire pitcher of Koolaid.
Once again: you claimed you can find things using dowsing rods. Prove that, and you're an instant millionaire. Why are you unwilling to take the test?
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The really hilarious thing about this dowsing nonsense is that if people really believed that it worked, they'd mount their rods under sealed glass with precision bearings.... not HOLD THEM IN THEIR HANDS.
That's like having cork on sandpaper for a a bearing! Of course if they actually made such an instrument, it become blindingly obvious how useless it'd be in about one minute.
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I vaguely recall reading some experiments way back when where people tried building them to remove any possibility of the operator influencing them. Don't recall any of the details or what the results were. Harry K
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On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:29:17 -0700 (PDT), harry k

I can predict what the results would be. On one level the results would be that it didn't work. On the other level the "expert" would start talking about how "of course it doesn't work, it HAS to be held in the persons hands because it's not just the rods, it's the PERSON too and the mysterious unknown force has to go thru both the rods AND the person to work." It's cop out #6 in the cop out hit parade of reasons why these powers never work if someone actually try's to test them.
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wrote:

I would like to see a true disbeliever, such as yourself, get a couple of bronze rods and try it. Since you expect nothing to happen then nothing will happen, right? To be specific the rods I tried were perhaps five inches long in the handle area, bent at 45 degrees for an inch or so, and then bent another 45 degrees and perhaps two feet long so the overall shape is 90 degrees and the thumbs rest gently upon the 45 degree slant. I wasn't expecting anything to happen, but it did.
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the Totalitarianism State> wrote:

demonstrate this ability under controlled conditions. If you can do it, you can win a million dollars.
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"Ulysses" <InCalifornia, the Totalitarianism State> wrote:

I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that I'm a true believer. I was a skeptic too until I tried it, got my well drilled, and got good water. All I'm saying is the the wands move under certain conditions and that it seems to be consistant. I have also stated that around here it's the generally accepted way to determine where to drill a well. I have tried it and I have not claimed any proficiency. I did not expect ANYTHING to happen. I even tried to get the wands to NOT move. It's the darndest thing.
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