Questions about buying a standby electrical generator

[joe]

This being a 'rural' group, I figured many in here are familiar with this subject.

I'm seriously thinking of getting a 20kw standby generator installed. We have regular outages in this area. One outage lasted for a week. Our 5500 watt portable Generac has been getting us through these just fine for the last dozen or so years. However, I'm two years shy of eighty, and I'm getting tired of getting up at 2:00 A.M and hightailing it to the garage through rain blowing sideways while pulling 75 feet of heavy duty cord to connect to the switch box on the side of the house. Arguing with the pull cord and the choke on the Generac ain't fun either while half asleep and soaked to the skin. Now, a natural gas operated standby does all the work itself, plus knows exactly when the power comes back on.

Anyway, has anyone in here have any opinions as to the merits of Generac vs. Kohler or some other brands of generators? How are these companies when it comes to standing behind their products? I never knew it would be so hard getting this done. It's been one problem after another with outfits that supply these things - and then sub contract the work out to lord-know-who. It also seems everyone does their damndest to hide the price of the generator itself inside the installation charges. I'm on my third outfit now trying to get this done. I wasn't thrilled this morning to get a copy of the contract from the latest seller disclaiming all warranties of any kind. The contract states "Buyer acknowledges that no express or implied warranties (including warranties of merchantability or fitness) have been made by the seller and seller hereby disclaims all such warranties."

Huh?

And I should pay about eight grand for this?

??

[Dean Hoffman]

I'll add another group to your post. The misc.rural group is pretty quiet.

[George]

All that disclaimer means is that the contractor isn't making any claims above and beyond those of the manufacturer nor are they providing any warranty beyond that of the manufacturer.

If 5500 watt does everything you need why would you want to almost quadruple the capacity? You will be burning more fuel and the initial cost is obviously more

As far as generac there is a world of difference between the big box versions and the ones that come from distributors.

[Smarty]

I am extremely curious to know what the "world of difference" is between Generac units which come from big box stores like Home Depot and the ones purchased from distributors.

I have been involved in installing both, and also am aware of the website where support is provided and technical questions are answered. There has never been any evidence of two different versions of products. The various Generac models only seem to differ in their size / capacity.

Distributors do offer a heavier duty case option on some models which uses aluminum and other materials to prolong the life and prevent rust. Perhaps this is the "world of difference" you are referring to?

Thanks for any comments.

Smarty

[Frank]

Approaching this decade myself, I can understand why he might want an automatic unit with some size to it. I was concerned this summer that any long outage would have meant no AC but we were lucky as brief outages, no more than a couple of hours, I did not even crank up my generator. Bad outages are few and far between and I would want something with a long term warranty.

[Stormin Mormon]

Just a SWAG, but some machines are made in China, and do not last for very many hours of use. other, USA made machines last longer. I remember from some where, a typical generator is designed for about 200 hours of use, before it wears out. That's much more time than typical home owner will ever put on it.

Serious users have long since gone to Honda, which cost twice as much but last many times longer hours.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

.

I am extremely curious to know what the "world of difference" is between Generac units which come from big box stores like Home Depot and the ones purchased from distributors.

I have been involved in installing both, and also am aware of the website where support is provided and technical questions are answered. There has never been any evidence of two different versions of products. The various Generac models only seem to differ in their size / capacity.

Distributors do offer a heavier duty case option on some models which uses aluminum and other materials to prolong the life and prevent rust. Perhaps this is the "world of difference" you are referring to?

Thanks for any comments.

Smarty

[gpsman]

The "S" could only stand for "stupid".

I remember from somewhere that you're incredibly stupid.

Fascinating analysis.

That's the problem with power outages, the hours w/o power are longer. -----

- gpsman

[Smarty]

The original question I asked related to Generac supposedly making two different lines of generators, one for sale at Big Box stores, the other sold via distributors. According to the author of the post, there is supposedly "a world of difference" between the two.

To my knowledge, this is not the case whatsoever. I am pretty familiar with Generac models and only have seen option for aluminum versus steel cases offered through distributors, but otherwise all units of a specific size from Generac use the same transfer switch, engine choice, and all other specifications being exactly the same. I do not believe there is ANY DIFFERENCE, let alone "a world of difference" between the unit sold at Home Depot and the unit offered via distributors.

As regards 200 hours of life time for the generator, I too have heard about the same number, but my interpretation is altogether different from yours Chris. Since the weekly exercise is 14 minutes of use, and each year the accumulated exercise time is therefore roughly 12 hours per year, the generator will wear itself out merely by self-test in roughly 16 years. This is even shorter if you take into account that the generator will be run for warm up before each oil change per the manufacturer's recommendation another half hour or so each oil change, and, if the power actually does fail, the generator may run continuously for, lets say 4 or more days, another 100+ hours.

This combined wear and usage suggests that you might get maybe only ONE EXTENDED USE of the generator before it needs to be replaced.............

Probably quite pessimistic in my approach to estimating I admit, but the

200 hours gets gobbled up really fast. And the engines used in the small home units are not all that special.

The Generac larger models for commercial use employ automotive V6 engines and larger diesels, and here is where they are truly long lasting designs compared to the home units.

At times I personally wonder whether the investment truly does make sense all considered, even though I still recommend, use, and get involved with installation help on these units.

Smarty

[Smarty]

Also, I don't believe Honda offers this style of standby generators in the U.S., but I might be wrong. Remember I am talking about the type the original poster is considering to replace his gasoline powered portable unit, which would be a stationary unit, permanently plumbed into an energy source and permanently wired with a transfer switch into his breaker box panel, typically 7 or 8 KW up to maybe 20 KW for home use.

Smarty

[Stormin Mormon]

My home owner application of the generator is "when needed". Bought mine in about 1998, or 1999. It has been run a half dozen or so times since then, probably totalling twenty or so hours.

Yes, I "should" run it every month. I live in a trailer park, and I'm not sure my neighbors would enjoy the noise.

Some people hate to be in the dark, and so the money is worth it, to them.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

.

As regards 200 hours of life time for the generator, I too have heard about the same number, but my interpretation is altogether different from yours Chris. Since the weekly exercise is 14 minutes of use, and each year the accumulated exercise time is therefore roughly 12 hours per year, the generator will wear itself out merely by self-test in roughly 16 years. This is even shorter if you take into account that the generator will be run for warm up before each oil change per the manufacturer's recommendation another half hour or so each oil change, and, if the power actually does fail, the generator may run continuously for, lets say 4 or more days, another 100+ hours.

This combined wear and usage suggests that you might get maybe only ONE EXTENDED USE of the generator before it needs to be replaced.............

Probably quite pessimistic in my approach to estimating I admit, but the

200 hours gets gobbled up really fast. And the engines used in the small home units are not all that special.

The Generac larger models for commercial use employ automotive V6 engines and larger diesels, and here is where they are truly long lasting designs compared to the home units.

At times I personally wonder whether the investment truly does make sense all considered, even though I still recommend, use, and get involved with installation help on these units.

Smarty

[Robert Macy]

fferent lines of generators, one for sale at Big Box stores, the other sold= via distributors. According to the author of the post, there is supposedly= "a world of difference" between the two.

IF you live in a rural area and IF you have a pool, GET A GENERATOR! Inc case of wildfire, you have a chance to empty that pool all over your house and grounds. No chance if you rely upon the utilities during such a crisis.

[Robert Macy]

The largest I've seen offered is 10kW

[RBM]

In my area as well, the people who install fully automatic generators seem to get 10 to 12 K for standard installations. It does seem like a lot considering the price of the equipment itself. That being said, a thing is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. If I were choosing a fully automatic, I would try to find one with a 4 pole generator, which will run at 1800 RPM, as opposed to the cheaper stuff running at 3600. I would oversize my needs in KW, but not go overboard. Just because you have a 16KW generator running, doesn't mean it costs any more than a 6KW unit, if you're only pulling 6KW on it. There is a point of diminishing returns though, so you don't want to get a 30KW if you require a minimum of 5KW. Everything I read about generac, indicates that they're built to the lowest common denominator, and I have a buddy who is a generac dealer. He doesn't give me the impression that they are of particularly high quality. Another thing you could do, is buy the machine yourself, and hire an electrician and plumber to do the installation

[trader4]

But that isn't what that section of the contract actually says. If that is what they meant, then they should have said there are no warranties beyond that provided by manufacturer. I'd cross them off my list immediately, as they are obviously too stupid to write a contract. Plus it;s not unreasonable to expect some warranty on their work too.

I have a neighbor that had a Generac that came from a dealer. About 6 years old, it went out during the hurricane a year ago. Dealer inspected it and found it to be a total loss because the generator is shot. Neighbore bought a whole new one. Another neighbor got the old, "shot" one. He's investigating if it really is shot. So far, all the windings appear to have reasonable readings, and they look fine. N o burned smell, etc. There is a burned smell though coming from a component in the control circuitry. My bet is that's what's really shot and it can be fixed.

[Ed Pawlowski]

different lines of generators, one for sale at Big Box stores, the other sold via distributors. According to the author of the post, there is supposedly "a world of difference" between the two.

I hear this all the time for tool, appliances, you name it. When I ask what the differences are, no one can tell me precisely. Just differences internally.

If such a thing really existed, Mom & Pop's hardware store would be smart enough to take apart a DeWalt drill, J Deere tractor and actually show the difference.

I challenged a hardware store to do just that. I wanted to buy a miter saw and it was $30 more at the small store. I asked for a discount, not even a price match, but they would not budge. I got the line that there are differences. Show me the difference and I'll pay your price, otherwise, I'm saving the 30 bucks. All I got was "the distributor told me it was different" B S !

[Ed Pawlowski]

They did day that. Besides, they did not write it, some lawyer did. Certainly not a deal breaker for me if everything else is in line.

If there is a warranty on their work, it is written in the contract. That differs from express or implied warranties.

[Ralph Mowery]

I am not sure what the differance is, but I bought a Dewalt 18 volt drill at Lowes on sale for $ 100. At work we have one just like it bought from a big distribituer and the one at work has a lot less plastic on the outside.

The John Deere mower will be taken care of if bought at a John Deere dealer. If bought at Lowes, Lowes will send you somewhere for warrenty work.

If you look at the modle numbers of lots of large dollar items, there will be a slight differance. This is so the stores will not have to 'price match'. Found out this when I was looking for a refrigerator. I think one had an extra emblem or piece of chrome on the door.

I can not prove it, but heard that batteries bought from Wallmart look the same, but internally there is less material than batteries at some other stores.

[dpb]

On 8/18/2012 3:20 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote: ...

Plus the "John Deere" at Lowes is the "Sabre" homeowners' model and _not_ the same at all. I think, in fact, JD may have discontinued them owing to that they weren't up to Green paint. Indeed, I see the link at the Deere website links to a "discontinued models" page for support for them that have survived...

[Ralph Mowery]

About 6 years ago I bought a Deere L120 mower at the local dealer. Lowes had the same modle. I now have slightly over 300 hours on it by the meter on the dash. The transmission is just about out of it. It used to pull the hill on my yard with no problem. Now it will work ok for about half the back yard and the transmission gets hot and it will not pull the hill. It seems to do fine on the flat land, but I bet that will go out soon. I found out that transmission was a piece of junk and there is a third part replacement for it , but that cost half the price of the mower. That will be the last mower I buy from them. This mower is yellow and green. Should have been all lemon yellow.

I am not sure how well it will hold up, but I will be looking to the other brands next year if the JD lasts this season.

[krw]

Same model number?

Same model number?

Some things, sure. Low-end TVs and mattresses are famous for this.

If you can't prove it, how did you come up with the conclusion?