PVC Cross fittings???

[dpb]

Anybody know of availability of same?

Background...had to repair a broken elbow in riser to stock fountain over the weekend. Not too bad other than -- a) buried 40" deep in small access hole so could only reach w/ fingertips, and b) the real problem, the old gate valves no longer shut tight enough to get a seal so ended up having to shut off well and drain the entire system. Being as is large farmstead, the amount of water in several hundred yards of 2" distribution piping is considerable.

Which leads to wanting to replace at least the gate valve at discharge of pressure tank which gets into the plumbing arrangement from the well to the PT and the discharge...there's 2" from well thru a reduced diameter cross--feed/discharge and to tank/external hose spigot the

90-degree way. I'm thinking would be simplest going back to replace the section within the three unions of existing galvanized w/ plastic as the length of a ball valve is greater than the gate valve it'll be replacing so will have to redo the connections, anyway.

There's a sizable flow restriction in this cross as I think it's only 1" and the feed inlet to the PT is 1-1/4 or 1-1/2. There's no real issue when just feeding the tank but when using heavy there's no reason to have the inline restriction directly inline to the outlet feed so I was looking to see if could find at least a 1-1/2" cross in PVC. So far, no joy....could use double tees, of course, but just wondered...

Also, another issue, electrical instead but related to the fountains--the buried feeder to one has failed. It's #4 direct-burial Al single conductor. I replaced a short section a couple years ago but there was another bad spot on past there so need to replace it appears the last 100-ft or so of the run in toto. This was done in the early

60s and is using separate black/white cables. I've been unable in a quick search to find anything marked or other than black. Ideally, I'd like to just match existing...the black only is a pita to keep the two separate; guess could go to USE but this is only 2-wire connection so paying for a third wire there's no use for in that case (and no, I'm not going the other 300-plus feet and redo the rest unless and until it proves absolutely necessary). So, anybody find some white #4 direct burial Al (actually, anything besides black is fine or a mark works, too). Again, yeah, one can pull one, pull the other and then mark the ends but in the space under the fountains having only the small end mark instead of the obvious cable is just waiting for a pita later...

[BenignBodger]

By cross fitting you mean a four-inlet (or outlet) "X"-shaped thingy? I saw some such at either Lowe's or Home Depot while looking for an "offset" adapter (which they didn't have). I'm pretty certain that they had 2" although I didn't pay a lot of attention. Guess it could have been 1-1/2" but they definitely were "X" fittings. The fittings appeared to be for structural purposes like furniture and shelves so I guess that there is a possibility that they might not even be pressure-rated even though they were in with the rest of the plumbing PVC fittings.

[dpb]

On 12/3/2013 4:29 PM, BenignBodger wrote: ...

Ayup, that's one of them thingies.

There are a lot of stuff for the furniture; there's also the

5-connection one there as well (altho it doesn't have thru holes).

No BORGS here; didn't find in the farm supply and/or hardware outlets. Didn't try the "high-priced spread" plumbing supply yet; there's still a chance't.

I'm not sure about the pressure ratings for the stuff made for the furniture market or whether it is just standard PVC cross-dressed.

[Fat-Dumb and Happy]

Amazon.com maybe a rotocopter will bring it to you.

[dpb]

On 12/3/2013 5:47 PM, TomR wrote: ...

You've not shopped the (one and only) local place, then... :) (or, :( more realistically). Small places have some advantages--this particular one is major disadvantage here.

[TomR]

I'm sure I haven't shopped at your place since I don't know where you are located, and where I am located (New Jersey) we have a number of plumbing supply places to choose among.

In my area, I have found virtually all of them to be very competitive with the big box stores on most items, and they are very easy to deal with. I like being able to just walk up to the counter, tell them what I need, and they go in the back and get it and I'm done and out of there. The only items that I do see as being higher priced are tools, but I also notice that all of the tools that they have seem to be professional grade/quality -- so sometimes I buy tools there when I want something that is higher quality (like a really good quality utility knife, etc.).

I do have one plumbing supply place in my area that is very snooty about who they sell to, and they claim to only sell to licensed plumbers and they want proof of licensure. I think they do that so their customers (the licensed plumbers) won't feel like the plumbing supply place is undercutting them by selling plumbing parts directly to consumers, and helping those consumers to skip using a plumber altogether. Maybe the place near you is like that -- meaning that they only cater to licensed plumbers and, if they do sell directly to consumers, they charge a high mark-up above what they would charge a licensed plumber for the same product or part.

[dpb]

On 12/4/2013 10:18 AM, TomR wrote: ...

There ya' go...it's now owned by a former plumber. Unfortunately, it's the only plumbing supply within 80+ mi other than Ace or a small DoItBest. The problem of smaller locales in rural areas where once one is out of town, it's a long way to the next of any size at all.

Another one tried a few years ago, but didn't last...but the few times I tried them they didn't have what wanted on hand, anyway. They seemed to only have the common-enough stuff that Ace had and not enough resources to be able to stock the lower-volume materials so they had no advantage.

[TomR]

If you know the exact PVC fitting that you want, my guess is that Ace would just order one for you from whoever their supplier is and have it come in with their next shipment. They probably don't want to stock unusual size fittings, but I would guess that they can easily order one for you.

[dpb]

On 12/4/2013 2:14 PM, TomR wrote: ...

That's actually not a bad idea -- hadn't thought to ask Bill if he can get onesies in or not. I had looked at the DoItBest site and didn't find it 'cuz I use their online "free ship to store for pickup" quite a bit for stuff not in stock.

[bud--]

I would use black and mark the ends. You can tape-mark 12", 24" whatever. Wire, starting #4, can be re-marked. A color other than black may not be available.

"Pull"? It is conduit? Direct burial?

Replace both if you are digging it up?

No ground? (But you know as well as anyone why to include a ground.)

[dpb]

On 12/5/2013 2:17 PM, bud-- wrote: ...

Strange, but appears quite likely to be true....wasn't an issue back when these were done in black, white, red...(there's one short 240V

3-wire circuit)

Direct...

From the known failure point to the end, yes...unless there's another failure that then shows up upstream, no way, no how until/if there becomes a need.

No. They're each grounded at the fountains (neutral tied to a ground rod) and there's no ground run with the cable and I'm not now going to run another wire after over 50 years of operation as is...

If were a new installation, yeah, but not on repair of existing work, it just ain't a'gonna' happen.

[dpb]

BTW, we're not talking just a few feet here; these are the cattle fountains in the feedlots--there are four fountains with a total run of

500 ft or so. The break location is, however, only about 50-ft from the far south end to the last one on that leg. I'm _hoping_ that replacing that section will be sufficient for a long while; otherwise we're talking far more work and especially expense given cost of materials now. (It's also why there's such a large wire for a relatively low power app; to minimize voltage drop over the long run, plus things were a whole lot cheaper then and the local REA had some cost-share programs in place at the time for expansion of facilities that didn't hurt, either.

Given the run, there's a good chance I'd do it the same way again (localized grounding, that is, altho I'd think about it some more if were doing it from scratch).

I used "pull" even though it is direct burial 'cuz the end at the fountain has to go under the poured slab the fountain sets on for the last 10-ft or so...so I think of pulling it thru there. I may, in fact, add some conduit on that end simply to ease the fishing...