Puttin' Tile where Vinyl Used to Be????? HELP ?????


We're redoing our kitchen and there is two layers of vinyl tile on the floor. The old vinyl from the early 1980's was a solid sheet. Then in the 90's a 12x12 vinyl was laid over top. The layers both pull up with little effort and we now want to put ceramic tile down. There is a faint layer of light adhesive still on the concrete slab. When we run a scraper across it there's basically nothing to scrap.
Our question is, do we need to remove this from the concrete before applying the new tile? It appears this will need grinding or some chemical stuff to remove and sounds like a ton of work (and mess) if not necessary.
Any advice????
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maybe a floor sander
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depends if there is enough variance taken up by the grout, may be giving more texture.
clean throughly
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try various chemicals, a friend had success using charcoal lighter fluid, with all the obvious rules.
well ventilated no sparks etc. work carefully dont cause a fire
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That's kind of our question, HOW thoroughly? We can get all the paper and any vinyl backing material off. But there is a hint of white leftover adhesive that is really a bear to clean off. We don't want to flood the house with chemicals if we can help it, and we've already painted the walls so using a sander or wire brush will thru junk into the finished walls.
We've been trying some different techniques like Downy fabric softener diluted in water (we used that to get rid of popcorn ceiling and it worked great), or degreasers and letting them sit and then using a big scraper. We just thought there might be some sort of inert product that can be used and allowed to soak to soften it up while not making the house a nightmare to be in. This is west central Florida and it's over 90 degrees outside and just finished raining so to fully vent the house makes it pretty much intolerable to work in those conditions.
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infiniteMPG wrote:

"A hint" isn't very quantitative. Will thinset stick to it reasonably well? If yes, lay away. If no, try...
1. A solution of TSP 2. Paint thinner 3. A propane torch
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dadiOH wrote:

PS - Just don't paint the concrete under any circumstances else you'll get Billy all riled up.
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heh, bound to happen;..'when i's a hear's in' b.s....n'
ya's jus' can't admit it.....
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wrote:

dadiOH,
WHO?!!
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NFS!
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On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 10:17:17 -0700, infiniteMPG wrote:

We had tile put down in very similar circumstances that you describe. The fellow that installed the tile used a small right angle grinder much like this one but a more professional heavy duty model to get much of the paper and glue up but not necessarily all of it. If you bought this and threw it away it would serve it's purpose although I'm sure it would have some life left in it. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber578
He *insisted* that we buy "Thinset Fortified with Polymer" to aid in bonding to the surfaces that had residual glue and paper(vinyl) left on the concrete floor. This was also backed up by both Lowe's and Home Depot tile department employees because we installed different tile in different parts of the house, eventually removing all the carpet and installing tile in it's place. Sort of a "do it in parts project". Part this month part next month.

Our tile installer ground the glue and residual vinyl up *dry* with angle grinder and sweeping up was all that was required before washing the floor with a wet sponge and applying the thinset. No damage to walls or trim. The grinder added texture to aid in bonding. The vinyl is made with paper so it absorbs some bonding agent in thinset to help with the bond if it firmly glued to the floor.
This is the way it was explained to me by the tile installer that was from generations of installers and had started as a youngster helping his father do the same trade. I am extreemly happy with the results.

I know the feeling, Sebring, Fla. here. Cut the grass at dawn before it gets hot. (c;|>
It is soaked by evening after every afternoon thunderstorm and too humid to venture out.
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Just hard for me too envision generations of tile setters in Sebring.
Had you said cowboys, now...
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On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 12:23:33 -0700, Oren wrote:

I didn't say that they only worked here in fact he didn' live in Sebring. You must have visited here. We moved here from Pinellas. The life style is slower here I must admit.
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I was joking and you know the town :))
In your location you can be on either coast in little time. Being central in the state the humidity can make one sweat immediately after the shower is turned off. You never get the coastal breezes.
OP lay the tile!
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RLM wrote:

You think it is slow there? Try Polk County :(
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wrote:

...grin...
How many Toofs I have?
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Rather not ;O).... eastern Manatee County is s-l-o-w enough for me.
Have to post my OWN solution to my situation and it worked well. The vinyl was pretty decayed, the house was built in 1982 and a second layer of vinyl laid down about 12 years ago. We got the vinyl pulled up at the edges and it just came straight up in BIG sheets that we managed to fold and cut into small enough chunks to put in construction bags.
Then we started the scraping. We tried water, and water and Downy mixed. Helped a little but not much. Read to NEVER grind or sand it as there can be very hazardous materials in the adhesive you'd never want to inhale or scatter around your home (and even tarping the room off, the dust would be everywhere). Then we heard about using citrus products or degreasers and we tried some with little help. Then we tried Krud Kutter and that worked better then the other products.
Then a quick run to Lowe's I found the BEST SOLUTION. It's a product called :
Mtsenbckner's LIFT-OFF - Paint and Varnish Remover - Water Based The world's first water-based, biodegradable, EPA compliant, Low/No VOC, Green Cross Certified, non-flammable stripper.
And trust me, it's great. The odors weren't bad at all even though it had a slight solvent smell but has no warnings on the label for venting. It's a gel so when you put it on, it stays. Used full strength it worked the best but we ended up thinning is slightly to extend it further and it still worked good. We got a 4" heavy duty scraper at Lowe's with a very sharp edge and a long handle with two grips. A lot of work still but the floor looks GREAT and we vented the house a little and the odor is barely noticable. It was later in the day and hadn't rained in a few hours so it barely got over 80 indoors. We rinsed the areas while working and then went back and mopped the whole area afterwards. But the floor is done and for two of us and about 7-8 hours we think it worked out pretty good. All ready for tiling!!!!
Thanks for all the advice and hopefully this will help someone else out.
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On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 14:42:18 -0400, RLM wrote:

After reading Oren's post I want to add that initial scraping of the vinyl was done using a straight bladed razor scrapping tool to remove the top layer of the vinyl. Home Depot or Lowes have these and spare blades. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber292

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u should pop corn it then take it off
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On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 07:31:08 -0700 (PDT), infiniteMPG

I'm not clear on the type of scraper you're using: putty knife or a razor blade type scraper? You've got the paper and vinyl off, so a razor blade scraper will easily remove the adhesive film 18 years old.

No need for a grinder, charcoal lighter (as suggested) or other chemicals.
Shop Vac and check the floor for level, repairs if necessary...
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