On 01/07/2015 3:19 AM, email@example.com wrote:
Hydraulic systems pump _always_ supplies pressure, the _cylinders_ are
either double-acting or single-acting. There is no "suction"; the
two-way valve applies pressure to the other side of the cylinder ram,
there's no "OR" there.
We added an additional double-spool control on an old M here 65 year ago
or so (altho they're all long gone, now, the M's were what I got my
start on as a kid for a year or two before the 400 and the Allis and
Case arrived in '59-60 time frame, the first 4000-series Deere in '62-63
This little tractor has 2-way to both the front blade and the mower deck ,
I can lift the front end off the ground with the front blade - but if I push
the lever all the way forward the blade floats . I have a double-acting
cylinder , but I don't think it's big enough to work well as the piston
diameter is only like 1.5" . I think the 2-way action is actually a function
of the spool valve you choose . This isn't likely to happen soon , I'll
probably save up and buy a used splitter when I get too old to do it
I don't know a lot about tractors other than I've spent enough time on one
to never need to do that again, but I have done quite a bit of work with
industrial hydraulics. It was all about pressure. The suction side of the
pump only connected to the reservoir and was fairly sensitive to
restrictions. A cavitating pump is not a good thing. With an up-acting
press, you pumped it up. The weight of the cylinder and platen would return
it to the open position after the valve released the pressure on the piston
and vented the cylinder back to the tank. With a down-acting press, gravity
might help filling the volume if you used a prefill valve, but then you
built pressure with the pump. To get the ram back up, you pressurized the
underside annular ring of the cylinder and vented the other oil back to the
tank. In other words there were single and double acting cylinders, but you
were applying pressure, not sucking oil out.
So that's what those controls are called! I was wondering that.
Thanks for the info. I learned a little more about hydraulics. I never
did much with them till a few years ago when I had to power an old
sickle mower off my Farmall. I did get it to work, but had to disable
the loader or both worked at the same time. I later just installed 2
ball valves to shut the loader off.
My Farmall M (Actually a "Super M") has been very reliable for a roughly
60 year old tractor. It's mostly used for plowing snow, pushing round
bales around, and spreading gravel when I fix holes on my driveway. But
Ive knocked down trees, did some building demolition, and much more.
However, without the loader, these tractors really cant do much!
On 01/07/2015 2:15 PM, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Never had a Super M so not sure when they switched over; does it still
have the single pull/push rod for the hydralics or does it actually have
a hand station control/lever?
Hmmm...let me see what I can find in my "vintage tractors" book if it
shows enough detail to see...well, unfortunately, no, the Super M was
shot from too low an angle from the ground. But, I'd forgotten they had
a relatively short time from of only '52-'54 which postdates the early M
production from '39 so there's a moderate chance.
I don't know if the hydraulics were built as they currently are to
simply add control spools or not, but it would be simple enough to add a
standalone additional control so you do have both available.
Well, they planted and cultivated a _lot_ of crops, pulled hay
balers/wagons, and myriads of other farm tasks for quite a long time.
A loader is a pretty late come-along item comparatively, albeit quite
useful. In the days before large bales (and even the small square bale)
there were string binders and pitchforks. :)
We were still using one to shock feed rather than harvest grain through
the 60s; dad finally sold it (still in working condition) during the
auction when he retired in the mid-90s. As with others, A quick search
found several videos but this one of the ones I looked at was the only
one that was actually tying the bundles; the rest were either not tying
at all or only partially successfully. Unfortunately, they didn't
really get a got shot of the fingers and the twine handling/knot tying
It'd been so long I'd forgotten a lot...looking at some of the pictures
from the platform reminded me of a lot! :) The piece of straight pipe
the headlights were mounted on, the little red rear "taillight", etc.,
etc., etc., ... all come back when I see it again.
We went to a 560 after the 400 which I never drove much; it
unfortunately, turned out to be a less-than-successful machine; just not
enough "guts" for the larger equipment were beginning to use. The rear
end went out pretty early; Dad had it rebuilt once but it only lasted
another couple of crop years and was going again so got rid of it for
the first Deere (a 4020, the first green on the place as grandfather and
dad neither one could stand the "johnny-pop" sound.
I did most of my row crop work on a little Allis-Chalmers D17; my
brother copped out of the rowcrop work and did most of the flat ground.
I preferred having more to do in driving straight row and all rather
than just go 'round and 'round so was fine with me... :)
We added the A-C loader later after quit using it as a field tractor.
It was a nice little tractor for the purpose with the low, wide stance.
It is, however, too short/small for current day hay moving as it
doesn't have the height to reach the top row of a current semi-trailer.
Even the 4440 Deere w/ the 148 loader that is present loader tractor
is just barely able; you have to be certain to get the bale at the
bottom to get the two over the drive wheels up there...mot of the newer
loaders are more adapted for the purpose w/ longer reach. Neighbor's
got a little Kubota not much bigger than the old Allis was and it's got
more reach than the 4440 because was made for the job even though it's a
lot lighter/less HP.
The Super M is darn near identical to the regular M. It has a little
more horse power. It has the same single push pull rod for the
hydraulics. I am not aware of anything different on the Super M other
than the little extra HP.
Where it lacks, is no 3 way hitch, and no LIVE PTO. I can run a small
square hay baler, but not my hay mower. The mower works but constantly
plugs up, because when I release the clutch, the mower stops, and that
is what causes the plug up. The mower works fine. I just pay a
neighbor to bring his bigger tractor, and mow it with my mower.
Someday Id like to get one of the later Farmalls with the Live Hyd and 3
way, but I may not farm much longer, so it's proabely just easier to pay
the neighbor. I only bale about 9 acres, so it's not a big deal.
But I do get enough hay from those 9 acres to feed my small herd for
half the winter. After that I have to buy hay.
On 01/07/2015 11:57 PM, email@example.com wrote:
I didn't remember the PTO; the book here says some of the later Super
M's had live hydraulics but don't think it mentioned the PTO. We didn't
use PTO off the M's much at all altho did use the belt for a couple
choppers and grinder and the ensilage blower for filling silo.
The Allis also had the problem; we had a little 6-ft rotary for it for
just around the feedlots and barnyard mowing; did have to remember about
it while using it, indeed.
There are a couple outfits making 3-pt attachments for the M's; not much
you can do about the PTO... :(
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