One of my neighbors came by the other day and asked that I sign a Christmas card and chip in for a gift card for another neighbor, Mike. It turns out that Mike is the guy who's been mowing the big right of way around the entrance to our subdivision. I just assumed it was the city. Nope, it's Mike, and he's been doing it for free for more than two years. I was happy to kick in a few bucks. Thanks, Mike!
While she was here, she casually mentioned that "some of us" were trying to set up an "unofficial HOA" that would ask people to voluntarily donate a suggested amount to do things like decorating around the entrance. I'm generally opposed to HOAs, so I just ignored that and gave her some cash for Mike.
If someone asks me to help plant shrubs, I'll be glad to participate, but I'm not going to support setting up an HOA. About what do I need to worry here?
I assume they can't impose an HOA after the fact unless we agree. Am I right? * What if 75% of the homeowners agree to the HOA?
It's unlikely this will ever get past the talking stage, but if nothing else, it's an interesting question. I'll go talk to my lawyer if it becomes a reality.
In your opinion, what's likely to occur, and what can I do about it.
Don't know about Texas, but most places a HOA is not a Government (like a city or township), but a contract freely entered into by owners of the land and the association. HOAs cannot force you to agree to the contract if you own the land before the association comes into being. If the cost / benefits ratio of the HOA is not to your liking, don't go for it. Don't matter what the others think or say, only your local or county courts (Judges) can force you into binding and attaching your land to a HOA against your will.
There is such a thing as a "Special Tax District," that can be implemented by a significant percentage of property owners. We have several in Houston and all - so far as I know - are commercial in nature. They tax the property owners and use the not-unsubstantial funds for district improvements. These district improvements - and a district is very small, maybe 50 square blocks - include distinctive street lighting, fancy-schmancy traffic signals, stainless steel arches over the main roads, illuminated street signs, and other visible designations of the district. There may be not-visible expenditures (street cleaning, extra traffic cops, et al).
This construct is not an HOA and I don't think it will apply to our friend from Arlington, TX, but the point is one CAN be impressed into an authoritarian institution against his will.
I live in a "voluntary HOA" community. We have an organization that maintains the common grounds and we all chip in but it runs as a "corporation not for profit" (Fla article 617) and they do not have the power of lien. We get about 75-80% participation on the $150 a year dues. It is enough money to maintain a community park, shelter building, boat ramp and several boat slips (for a nominal rent). That also buys an insurance policy for the common elements. This is the best of both worlds. We have some organized participation of neighbors but without any power freaks since there really isn't any power to be had. A few people tried to look into making this a "720" lien empowered association and it got voted down by about 70% of the residents.
No, your property dan't be encumbered after the fact without your consent or judicial action - neither of which is likely.
Your neighbors can form a voluntary neighborhood association, raise funds and apply those funds towards neighborhood improvements. You can't be compelled to join or contribute.
What if you and the person who asks you are the only ones who show up? Year after year? What if even the one who asks you doesn't show up anymore?
And Mike, you won't have Mike forever.
Very little. Either don't sign anything, or read very carefully what you sign.
I doubt what she has in mind has anything to do with signing anything, or with forming an HOA that has "power". She just wants an organized way to collect some money for n'hood beautification.
And that's probably a good thing, as long as the cost is reasonable, and it probably would be, but they can't force you to give more than you want, as long as you haven't signed anything that says they can.
(Oh, do you own your own streets or does the government?)
They could bind themselves, but not those who don't agree.
Don't forget, She called it unofficial. I'm sure she means no legal contract, no binding power, like a club. You don't object to clubs do you. Maybe like the Kiwanis club, but more selfish. They do things for people they don't know. You'd all be doing things for your own small group of people. (Although even the Kiwanis does things for the town they live in, which is similar. People can quit the Kiwanis anytime they want. And I think the dues are small and most people give more time or money than is required. And if they can't pay the dues they quit, but they don't move out of their home.
Who owns the land in question? Does the city not mow rights-of-way? I would be very cool to any agreement to do anything to land that I did not own. If Mike mows for a few more years, mebbe he will own it? Any agreement/contract to do anything can lead to lawyers. I certainly would not plant anything......the day someone hits a gas line or a cable will be the day appreciation is forgotten.
Doubt if you will be obligated to join but you may suffer peer pressure to pay if one is formed. Back in old development, HOA was formed afterwards. I refused to join but would pay for snow removal as this is an important item here. HOA would pester me for dues which was only a few dollars but I would not pay out of principle.
Current neighborhood, required joining association on purchase of home. Big item, is still snow removal and I participate gladly in association.
Geez, it looks like most of the posters here want to make something simple into a big deal. The OP stated the issue was "set up an "unofficial HOA" that would ask people to voluntarily donate a suggested amount to do things like decorating around the entrance."
That's very different from an actual legal and binding HOA. So, I don't see why anyone would have a problem with it. One owner has been nice enough to mow/maintain the common entrance area. All this neighbor was trying to do was come up with some informal, non-binding way to collect money from the other owners willing to help pay for it and maybe make the place look better. Instead of sending her on her way, I would have said sure, I don't mind chipping in to a voluntary system, paying my fair share, and think it's a great idea. I hardly think she's going to come back with legal documents forming a HOA.
Not to worry, as others said but peer pressure can be a problem. I think they need to rename it as it sounds more like what I have here. Run this by them?
We have a local NA (Neighborhood association). It is *not* an HOA. It is a voluntary list of folks who with prior arrangement, help others with various 'things'. The most common one is helping get leaves up just now. This is an older sub-division and many here are quite elderly. They wander down to Karen's (local lady) or call her and she keeps an email list which she sends out. 2 weeks ago, we showed up for the Garrison's (nice elder lady, husband wheelchair bound now) and handled their leaves. Joe came over with some leaf bags (Joe is next door, we handle his leaves as he's also older but it's from our combined tree that grows maybe 6 inches deeper on his side but pretty much 'on' the property line).
Ours is more a matter of fair sharing the help we have and the skills we have. Now and again a project comes up that needs some materials which the person can't afford but usually one of us has the stuff sitting about, or in a few times, one of us just goes out to get it and donates it.
Samples of that since I came back stateside OCT 2007:
- Bad step, wood rotted, needed 3ft long 12 inch PT piece and someone with tools to cut it to measure. (We had tools, another had the wood)
- Wheelchair ramp, wood again, needed several pieces replaced, 6 inch PT stuff, we had wood and tools, others did labor
- Driveway resurface (professionally done), needed temp a place to park nearby (we have a double and just about the only one near with that, 2 doors down)
- Gutter and leaf cleaning, probably been about 15 of these, we've done some, others the rest. They often borrow our gutter cleaner. (got Don a nice one for his birthday)
- Wallpaper repair after water damage in bathroom (wall fixed professionally after leak fixed, just needed papering and they couldnt afford it). Small job, took me 1 hour if that. They had an extra roll of the pattern and it's not the sort to worry about repeat lining up.
- Grunch of elders who use the local kids for 10$ to cut the grass (small lots here, 1 hour to cut average lawn front and back).
- Spring several ask to borrow rototillers for gardens and someone always seems to have one and happy to do a small bit in a known safe spot away from any lines.
- Bush shaping (roses and box elder mostly)
- Fence repairs (we sometimes have the wood for this, others do labor) this is minor repairs, not major which we will be contracting out in spring for our own house
Best of all:
- Minor roof tile patching after a wind storm (this one was emailed out as 'who needs help with a few tiles and if they had matching ones, then we had
10 of us go door to door in teams of 3 as there were alot of replies. I
*think* we did about every 4th house in the end including 2 that came loose on our own at the front of the garage.
Here's where a 'NA' really kicks off.
- Next door renter is a roofer and donated a day to check what needed more than simple handyman. He is *honest* and we know it. He then (after asking folks if they were ok with him asking for an estimate) called his boss and negotiated a 'group rate' for some that needed more after he looked at their roof. These were cases where the folks knew they needed a roof job anyway and just hadnt worked out the details yet.
Great deal on both sides since they could do a big batch and just bring a really big team (3 maybe?) over to one area for 14 days. *chuckle* we looked like a construction zone with the roofers on 3 houses on my street alone but the deal was really sweet. About 1750$ labor? plus cost of materials for a whole house tear off (plywood replacement extra if needed). I believe the talley was 19 houses in a 4 x 3 block radius needed some level of professional care? (houses built 1960, most now at max number of tiles and needing ripoff and repair if not already done).
If this 'sort of thing' is what you mean, then it's not an HOA but it is a neighborhood association of another sort.
Read Phil in Mich. 's nice post in another HOA thread regarding the guts of the judge's ruling. I suggest you to there, and follow the link in the link to the full judge's decision. The more you understand, the better choice you will make. I would not opt in to a HOA were it me, because right now, you may know everyone, and five years, you may have new neighbors and people running it that you wouldn't invite over for a dog bar mitzvah.
Phil -In-Mich. posted:
I followed your link and then followed the link to read the full decision by the Judge.
Some of us have had encounters with people who have bad intentions and plenty of money to hire attorneys :o)
And if Mike falls off the mower, cuts off his leg and bleeds to death, what will his loved ones do? Sue someone? Does paying him make him your employee?
Our neighborhood (Dallas, Texas) has a voluntary homeowner's association. It has no enforcement powers at all. But with voluntary dues contributions ($150 per year) provides extra police patrols, crime watch, and general community organization and communication. I like it. I would be very, very reluctant to live where an HOA could put a lien on my property for dues or a pickup in my front year, but the one we have is a good thing. -- Doug
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