property with "no" water

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Mon, 04 Aug 2014 19:48:01 -0400:

Hey Stormin! I learned something looking that up to answer your question!

Here is the "Santa Clara County Defensible Space Chipping Program:

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It says (verbatim) "SCFSC will chip brush that has been cleared 100? from permanent structures and/or 30? from any roadside or driveway used for evacuation purposes."

Up until this very moment, I hadn't known they'll chip within 30 feet of the driveway and roadway "used for evacuation" purposes (which pretty much is *every* driveway and roadway around here (since it's an extreme fire hazard area, the highest hazard level that California uses).

In theory, they leave the chips but in practice, they take 'em away. I just called them at 408-975-9591 to ask how much they think it reduces the risk of fire damage to structures, but had to leave a message.

However the FAQ says they're supposed to protect the homes from wildfires:

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Reply to
Danny D.
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Pete C. wrote, on Mon, 04 Aug 2014 07:04:45 -0500:

Hi Pete,

You're probably right as I have never been able to figure out how water flows through the ground to the well, and how it replenishes when we're on a hill so I can't understand why it doesn't just flow out the hill from the sides (which it does, as springs, but they mostly flow only during the winter rainy season).

I watched this 10-minute video on how a well works, which was pretty good, but didn't really answer all the questions I have in my mind:

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It's interesting that you're suggesting a lower yield will run longer. Is there a way to tell the pump to slow down (i.e., go lower on the yield)?

Reply to
Danny D.

Well, that's got to help a bit, I'd think. Wonder how many people take advantage of that program?

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

Good grief. Believe whatever you want. It's a rural section of suburban NJ not remote woods. Like most parts of central NJ, while part of the township is still rural with farms, etc, there are also new sub-divisions going in. Many of the older homes there have wells. If anything, that it's partly developed and in NJ makes my case better. If they were going to test wells for output for a CO, where exactly do you think it's more likely to be done? A rural, suburban township in NJ, where wells still exist? Or someplace where you live, wher e no CO is required at all? It's a curious position you have. You live were no CO is required, you have no experience in getting one, yet you want to argue about what they look at? Do you see well output or anything similar on that list?

None of which has anything to do with wells. I said it was rural NJ, not the dark side of the moon.

Nothing there that says or implies that. Still don't believe me? Here's a current real estate listing for a home in Monroe Twp with a well:

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Reply to
trader_4

Yep to what? That they test the well output in your area as a requirement for a CO?

Reply to
trader_4

On 08/05/2014 8:29 AM, trader_4 wrote: ...

Chill dood!!! :)

Was just expressing my amazement that it wouldn't be a priority item on such...

Reply to
dpb

With some other anecdotal comparison to more rural area (which we don't think is really all that "rural" any more :) ).

I still think it's somewhat incongruous that the first point is the size of the house sign number and one could fail on them being only 3-1/2" tall instead of 4" and have virtually no water. Just seems grossly misplaced priorities--but, that's just me.

Reply to
dpb

I think the key there is they focus on safety. In my first post I cited examples of smoke detectors. Now they require CO detectors and a fire extinguisher in the kitchen that's out in the open too. The 4" numbers are obviously so police/fire can find the house. They look at missing railings on decks, stairs. So, in the context of the well, if the well flows at 1/2 gpm or 30 gpm, it's not a safety issue. If it's contaminated with fecal coliform, it is. That's likely whey they care about the water quality test and are not interested in the flow rate. The last CO inspection I had took all of about 10 mins.

Reply to
trader_4

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Tue, 05 Aug 2014 08:33:21 -0400:

They send out leaflets every year and I see piles of chips alongside some driveways (but many can be up near the houses where I can't see them).

They try to do them all at the same time, so, I'd say one out of every twenty homes does it (roughly).

It's not many, and they don't have to do it every year.

Reply to
Danny D.

...

...

NJ doesn't have GPS? Even here in the wilderness the County has every taxable property/residence in a database for 911 dispatch w/ mapping software...

I'd think both would be of interest in at least assuring an adequate supply, but then again, that's just me...and I wasn't on the committee that drafted the rules. But it is called "occupancy" after all and an inadequate water supply would seem limiting...again it's not the well rate I'm saying is _necessarily_ the limiting factor as that can be solved but there ought to be a checkbox im(ns)ho that says the issue is taken care of satisfactorily, however that may be if they're going to go to the bother of doing it.

Reply to
dpb

so joe X buys a home with poor well water production and cant afford a new well. the home cant really be lived in so joe moves out and defaults on th e loan....

the lender is now stuck with another foreclosure.....

today lenders try to prevent things like this by often requiring a home ins pection. that covers a multitude of issues.

another related topic, homeowners insurance companies have gotten very fuss y about writing policies. high wind insurance for homes along coasts, prohi bitions on new policies for homes with fuses, knob and tube wiring, bad roo fs, cracked and broken sidewalks, and lots of other possible risks. sometim es insurance is still avaiable at dramatically higher costs.

Reply to
bob haller

Simple, slant drill in their direction.

If they catch you, ask them why they are leaning so far over? Are they drunk? Be sure to be leaning over when you ask this, the same amount as your drill.

Reply to
micky

micky wrote, on Thu, 07 Aug 2014 02:00:33 -0400:

Along similar lines, here's a well being drilled just about 50 feet from a neighboring well on the next property (which I'm standing on).

This drill seems to be going straight down though (you can see a tall white tower hidden mostly by the trees). They went 520 feet deep.

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Reply to
Danny D.

w well. the home cant really be lived in so joe moves out and defaults on the loan....

So far it sounds like the house has new wells capable of producing 1/2 to 1.25 GPM. IDK why that can't be lived in. It justs requires the proper system, with about a 1000 gal tank. We've had Danny talking about the many systems in his neighborhood that have tanks that are

5,000 or 10,000 gallons. So, a 1000 gal tank to solve this doesn't sound way out there or expensive.

nspection. that covers a multitude of issues.

ssy about writing policies. high wind insurance for homes along coasts, pro hibitions on new policies for homes with fuses, knob and tube wiring, bad r oofs, cracked and broken sidewalks, and lots of other possible risks. somet imes insurance is still avaiable at dramatically higher costs.

I've heard of an insurance company denying coverage based on some of the above, because it relates to insurance risk. I've never heard of an insurance company denying coverage based on the flow rate of a private w ell, which AFAIK, has nothing to do with risk.

Reply to
trader_4

Probably won't get a COA if needed.

You won't get an FHA Mortgage:

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Pump test indicating a flow of at least 3-5 gallons per minute supply for an existing well, and 5 gallons per minute for a new well

Nor will it meet many state codes: The Water Well Board and the New Hampshire Water Well Association, a group of private professionals associated with the well water industry, both recommend a flow rate of 4 gallons per minute for a 4 hour period. That?s equivalent to 960 gallons of water flowing steadily for 4 hours. These groups agree these results will ensure optimum water supply for home use and a modest amount of outdoor use.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

new well. the home cant really be lived in so joe moves out and defaults on the loan....

What's a COA? You mean a CO? You'd get one in NJ.

Apparently, per the FHA, that went out the window in 2005:

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"Inspection Requirements

FHA no longer mandates automatic inspections for the following items and/or conditions in existing properties:

Wood Destroying Insects/Organisms: inspection required only if evidence of active infestation, mandated by the state or local jurisdiction, if custom ary to area, or at lender's discretion

Well (individual water system): test or inspection required if mandated by state or local jurisdiction; if there is knowledge that well water may be contaminated; when the water supply relies upon a water purification system due to presence of contaminants; or when there is evidence of:

Corrosion of pipes (plumbing) Areas of intensive agriculture within 1/4 mile Coal mining or gas drilling operations within 1/4 mile Dump, junkyard, landfill, factory, gas station, or dry cleaning operation w ithin 1/4 mile Unusually objectionable taste, smell or appearance of well water (superceding the guidance in Mortgagee Letter 95-34 that requires well wate r testing in the absence of local or state regulations)"

As I said before, here, NJ, the state requires a water quality test, but no flow rate test. By my reading of the above, here you'd have to have the water quality tested because it's a state requirement. There is no reqt for a flow test.

NJ doesn't require a min flow rate. So far, I haven't seen anything that says OH does either. I googled and it sure looks like they are similar to NJ, ie concerned about water quality, you have to test that to get a CO, but not flow rate.

And there are plenty of other mortgage sources other than FHA. This reminds me on my mother telling me a story about what happened when they were having a house built in the 50s. She went to the site one day to find that the plumber had installed the toilet a few inches out from the wall. When she asked what was up with that, he told her that is the FHA standard. She told him they didn't have an FHA mortgage and to move the toilet. If the OP wants to buy the house, the first place I'd look for a mortgage is the folks who foreclosed on the loan.

I think you're confusing actual codes with recommendations. The above clearly says "recommended". I'm not saying there isn't a potential problem somewhere, with some agency. There are also plenty of places where you still don't even need a CO period.

Reply to
trader_4

the ultimate question.........

Is OP prepared to do whatever is necessary if / when the existing poor production wells dry up altogether?

this would require having water hauled in or a brand new well, probably futher from the home.

as long as the OP is willing to do whatever is necessary and can afford it then the home is probably a good deal.

OP might look into having the existing low production well exploded .

they send a explosive charge down, to try and crack the surrounding rock in the hopes it opens up and water production increases.

most commonly done on gas and oil wells, but it can be done for water wells too.

the hazard is it might collapse the existing wells since they are so close....

Reply to
bob haller

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