prog. therm. and heat pump questions

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Couldnt bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag...

Couldnt bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag...

Couldnt bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag...
Most obviously when you are happy to get up in the morning and head out at the setback temp and only require the normal temp in the evening. Nothing rediculous about that approach.

Couldnt bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag...

Couldnt bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag...

Couldnt bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag...

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I guess you are out of ammo, firing blanks
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Couldnt bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.
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Couldnt bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag...
Most obviously when the system used to get back off setback at a decent rate doesnt even bother with ductwork at all and is just a simple split system with no ductwork.

Couldnt bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag...

Couldnt bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag...
Most obviously when you are happy to get up in the morning and head out at the setback temp and only require the normal temp in the evening. Nothing rediculous about that approach.

Couldnt bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag...

Couldnt bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag...

Couldnt bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag...

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come back and see me when you figured out how to get multiple systems to share common duct work rookie.
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Dont have to share the same ductwork, fuckwit.
Dont even need any ductwork at all with the system that is used to come off setback at a decent rate.
Dont even need multiple systems either if you're happy to come off setback for the evenings and use passive solar assist to come off setback earlier in the day.
Keep desperately digging, you'll be out in china any day now.
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Rod Speed wrote:

okay so you are going to instal 3 systems now, three independent duct systems

Okay now the system sized to provide recovery from set back is a ductless split system. Everyone sleeps with their bedroom doors open and we run the fan steady on another system to attempt to get the space temp uniform with in 5 degrees through out the house.
Like I said, read carefully, sound out the big words and think before you post.

So now you are admitting then that you need the solar gain from the sun to recover from setback. I mentioned that earlier. In another post you seem to say it is okay that it is too cold when you get up for breakfast by late afternoon the sun will make up for what your system could not do.
So why set the system back in the first place, just keep it at 65F, wear the wool socks and a toque under your tin foil cap and you are comfy plus saving money.

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Nope.
Nope.
They dont need to when that system is JUST used to come off setback.

Even someone as stupid as you should be able to work out that if the ductless split system is JUST used to come off setback, the system which is used to maintain the normal temp will be perfectly adequate to maintain the uniform temp, just like it is if setback wasnt used.

Like I said, couldnt bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag...

No you dont if you're happy to come off setback for the evenings.

Lying, again.
And you also pig ignorantly claimed that

Cant even manage a consistent line in pig ignorant bullshit.

Yes, some are quite happy to shower and head out at the setback temp.

To save on the cost of running the system, fuckwit.

You dont need either when its at the normal temp you require in the evening after you return.

Couldnt bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag...

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Abby Normal wrote:

I hate to say it, but I have to concur with Rod on this one. His style of argumentation leaves a lot to be desired, but in this case, I agree with his conclusion.
If you are coming off setback and using a secondary heat pump to do only that, it doesn't need duct work. If it just heats the air in one room, the primary system will be running continuously (or nearly) and will be circulating the air around the house anyway. Even if the secondary heat pump heats the air in one room up to 95F in the process, eventually that'll even out as the other system recirculates everything. And heating the air up to such a high temperature is unlikely anyway, since by definition when you are recovering from setback, the temperature is colder than you'd really like it.
However, I do have to admit there could be problems if the secondary heat pump (that's used only during recovery) is putting heat mainly into the room with the thermostat. If the temperature in that room rises faster than in the rest of the house, it could cause the system to think recovery has finished when it hasn't yet gotten to that point. And if the secondary heat pump is too far away from the thermostat, it could cause the system to overshoot the target and heat up the house too much. But, those are control issues rather than duct issues, and they seem solvable.
- Logan
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Logan Shaw wrote:

It isn't going to work. If you raise the temp in one room to a point higher than the desired temp, then you're going to have heat losses through the exterior walls that wouldn't have occurred with a centrally ducted system, thus defeating the purpose, at least to some extent. If you feed it into an interior room then that room will simply get too hot, no question about it. I hate to say it but it's not a very intelligent alternative.
hvacrmedic
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Corse it'll work.

That isnt going to happen when the secondary system is JUST used to come off the setback in a reasonable time.

Nope.
Wrong again.

Corse it will work fine. No reason why the secondary system cant have a slightly lower than normal temperature set so it recovers from the setback in a decent time and then stops and leaves the primary system to get the temp back up to normal. Thats going to happen fine since the temp difference is well within its capabilitys.
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Rod Speed wrote:

Supposing that I grant your every point, what would be the point of such a system? Wouldn't it be much easier to simply install a larger staged system?
hvacrmedic
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It makes setback viable with a heat pump.

Nope, and likely quite a bit cheaper not to too.
If there was not going to be anyone in the house during the day, I'd personally run the setback right thru to the afternoon and have the system come back off setpoint at a time that would ensure that it was back to normal temp by the time everyone came home again and thru the evening. Go back onto setback after everyone has gone to bed.
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That's good, let the sun warm up the home during the day, then let the heat pump maintain a comfortable temp until you fall asleep then set it back.
Just keep it cool until until the next afternoon when the sunshine warms your house back up.
So if they do not mind those cold temps when the experience nice low wet bulb temps when getting out of the shower on those winter mornings why even bother setting it back in the first place. Just keep the temp set low all the time. With a passive solar design, It could even rise above the set point on a sunny winter day for free.
So now you stayed up all night to basically say why bother making the system recover from night time set back mainly because it can't without some extra help. The extra help is sunshine, strip heaters, an oversized system or a dedicated 'recovery from night time set back' system.
You have given up on the overnight set back, so we are back to the day time setback where I already said, "recover while the sun is shining".
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Yep, your original claim that

was always just plain wrong.
And you dont necessarily have to use solar to come back off setback either, the other obvious possibility when solar isnt practical is to come back off setback after midday when the heat pump can get back to normal temp for the evening a reasonable time with no one in the house.

Basically because that saves power when you are asleep when its vastly more economical to heat the bed rather than the entire house.

Depends on how the passive solar is done. Many find that once the sun has gone, that its not warm enough for comfort and so it makes sense to use a heat pump to keep the place warm enough in the evenings and to go onto setback once you have gone to bed.

No I didnt. You cant even work out the basics on timezones either.

What matters is what is the most economic way to come back off setback with a heat pump.
That can make setback with heat pumps very viable. You pig ignorantly claimed setback isnt viable with heat pumps.

No I havent.

Its just one way of doing setback with a heat pump.
The other obvious approach is the ductless split system added to the primary system.
Another is just coming off setback after midday with plenty of time to get back to normal temps for the evening with more useful outside temps.
Your original claim that setback isnt viable with heat pumps has always been just plain wrong.
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RP wrote:

Even if you agree with the troll he will still argue with you.
The heat pump without the heat strips, without being grossly oversized, or without having multilple units exceeding the required capacity can't recover for the morning period so he advocates not bring the home up to temperature until the afternoon.
You got the sun helping you then, plus the only intelligent thing this idot has said so far......... in the afternoon you are hitting your daily high temperature usually so you get a little more heat out of the heat pump. So now the system is being set back for 16 hours minimum each day. Once a day. Recover while the sun is shining, nothing new, just the way he trolls around and ends up saying what was originally said by others.
Otherwise just leave it at the low indoor temperature, wear long underwear and slippers all the time, be comfy and enjoy low heating bills. The fact that the cost of the booster system being installed would never pay for itself in its lifetime of service is another matter.
The rest of the stuff he just contradicts himself, and really to argue that you can setback and recover temperature in time by forking out the extra money for a 'booster heater system' is just stupid. A case of going to extreme to prove a point and yank someone's chain to keep them arguing with a moron.
I think he has it down to a minimum of three systems now, two ducted and one ductless split but I think he will soon be championing the cause of a ductless split heat pump in each room to boost the temperature more evenly. Maybe he will go back to one sized for cooling as the central ducted system then a ductless split in each room.
Maybe one of those mitsubishi vrv's yah that's the ticket. They only cost about as much as chilled water.
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Abby Normal wrote:

My real opinion about this entire subject is that if you can't afford to run a strip heater or two for recovery, then you can't afford to run the fucking heat pump either. They should just shut the fucking thing off, sell it on e-bay, use the money to buy a big gun to kill themselves. Then all of those monetary concerns would be moot :)
hvacrmedic
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You wouldnt know what a troll was if it bit you on your lard arse.

Couldnt bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.
What was being discussed was your pig ignorant claim that setback aint viable with heat pumps.
I rubbed your stupid pig ignorant nose in a number of perfectly viable situations where set back with a heat pump is indeed viable.

Its a hell of a lot more than an little more, you pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist.

Doesnt alter that FACT that setback is indeed viable in that particular situation.

Pity you pig ignorantly claimed that setback aint viable with heat pumps.

Couldnt bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.

Nothing to do with what was being discussed, whether setback can be viable with a heat pump.

Complete pig ignorant drivel with the cheap chinese ductless split systems.

Lying, as always.

Couldnt bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.
And passive solar to assist with coming off the setback doesnt necessarily cost much at all.

Couldnt bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.

Lying, as always.

Lying, as always.

You dont even need that if you are happy to come off the setback in time for the evening, fuckwit.

Couldnt bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.
I actually keep rubbing your stupid pig ignorant nose in the FACT that the primary system will be perfectly adequate to equalise the temperature when the boost is being used.

You're the only one so stupid that you cant manage to work out that the primary system is perfectly adequate to keep the temps even if it can do that without any setback.

Pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist is obviously blotto by now.
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You even suck as a troll. Same old repettoire when flustered.
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Couldnt bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.
Obviously blotto, as always.
No surprise that the best its ever been able to manage is HVAC ape.
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