Price of Light Bulbs

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madelca100 wrote:

This one is dimmable, although I know not about its noise level when it is dimmed. $14.99, 930 lumens - roughly the same light output as a 60 W incandescent.
You may be an exception to the rule, equipping all your wall switches with dimmers. At $15 or so a switch that certainly adds up over a whole house.
The discussion about price of light bulbs did not involve dimmers until YOU brought that up.
The original author wanted a 150W bulb and was dismayed at the price difference between 75W-100W bulbs and the 150W bulb. I checked at Walmart and yes the 150W bulb is much more expensive than a 75W or 100W. 4 packs of each of these are only a bit more than the price of a SINGLE 150W bulb.
A single CF rated for 2600 lumens (150W equiv) with color temp of 5000 Kelvin for accurate color fidelity only uses 40W of electricity, is rated for 10,000 hour life, is 6.7 inches long and 2.68 inches wide (fits most lamps) and costs about $10. As I recall the 150W bulb at Walmart was about $2.75, and you will replace it 5 or more times in the life of a similar lamp equipped with this bulb.
http://www.1000bulbs.com/product.php?productg28
This is the CF that I am discussing above.
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Robert Gammon wrote:

Rated 10,000 but I saw some of them go in couple months. Guaranteed yes, rated no, LOL
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Tony Hwang wrote:

YMMV of course. I have some CFs in my house that have had daily use for over 10 years without a single replacement. Yes some do not last that long, but even the short life ones are YEARS before they need replacing. Few of the CFs in my house are the short spiral, we bought a pack of 6 of them 3 years ago to replace twin tubes that were starting to fail after 8-10 years of service.
There are only 3 incandescent lamps now in the house, installed in reflector floods, they get very little or no useage at all.
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I can actually measure the lifespan of some of my CFLs in decades (the 7 and 9 watt Philips PL models I bought back in 1984) and others literally minutes -- in the case, all Lights of America.
I bought six Philips SLS20 CFLs back in the 1997 and five of the six are still going strong (the other one was dropped). They're noticeably dimmer now and you can clearly see how the phosphorous coating has blackened and become pitted, but even after 15,000 or more hours of use, they continue to run.
If you stick with Philips, Osram Sylvania or GE, you shouldn't be disappointed.
Cheers, Paul
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On Fri, 07 Apr 2006 19:58:09 GMT, Paul M. Eldridge

more than a couple years.
I use them because they do last longer than incandescents & save a few KWh of electricity.
The downsides; Won't fit inside some glass covers. Some are noisy. Some don't give full light for a few minutes. They are expensive- even if the electrical savings are calcuted at face value.
Jim
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Hi Jim,
I wonder if this ties back to my earlier comment regarding brand. I've had exceptionally good luck with Philips and Osram Sylvania and an absolutely disastrous experience with Lights of America (I don't know if they're any better today, as I stopped buying their products some fifteen years ago).
It seems the technology continues to improve, year by year, and with the introduction of the new "mini-twist" CFLs, some of these lamps are now actually physically smaller than the incandescent bulbs they replace. And I believe any products that are "Energy Star" certified must meet specific standards in terms of energy efficiency, operating performance and service life. But, generally speaking, electronic ballasts should eliminate any issues with flicker and ballast noise, and CFLs that employ amalgam technology work much better over a wide range of temperatures and reach full brightness in much less time.
Lastly, the cost of CFLs has fallen dramatically over time and this trend, if it should continue, combined with steadily rising power rates, should make CFLs increasingly more popular.
Cheers, Paul
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Paul M. Eldridge wrote:

Tuesday/Wednesday in 6400K color temp. The lamps are just under 5" tall and about 2 inches wide. They fit ANYWHERE a 60W or 75W incandescent bulb would fit. Similar bulbs at Walmart (although not 6400K) are a bit higher, but under $3 each.
To get Phillips and Osram brands will require selective shopping as the only places I can recall seeing them is at Home Deport and/or Lowes.
I just tested a newly installed 13W mini twist (GE brand - made in china). From flipping the switch to full brightness was about 3-5 seconds. This design is several years old, and the current year models are even faster to turn on.
Cost per lamp is $2.10
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6400K raises a red flag - I have seen that more than anywhere else as a claim of "dollar store" compact fluorescents! I have *BIGTIME* experience with these *consistently* having brightness about or somewhat less than that of 40 watt standard incandescents, even when claimed incandescent replacement is as high as 150 watts, even when nomimal wattage is 36 watts (should be good for well-outshining a 100 watt incandescent or halogen), even when claimed lumens exceed 1300 (a "standard" 75 watt incandescent is 1190 or so).
Also, I have seen 6400K dollar store ones have color over a range of 6500 to 8000. Be aware that 6400, 6500 and 8000 are all minor variations of "bluish icy cold slightly-bluer-than-pure-white" with higher color temp. being more-bluish.

Often but not always I see 6-packs of compact fluorescents at Home Depot for $10.

I think these are good places to get such things - as well as Target. Even when a 4-pack costs $15, even in a severe bad case where a 15 watt compact fluorescent dies as quickly as a 60 watt incandescent, at USA-average residential electricity rate one saves $4.50 per bulb!
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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Don Klipstein wrote:

with FEII as a part of the part number.
Feit gives a good graphic of color temps on its web site.
http://www.feit.com/colortemp.html
Incandescent/candle/normal CF is about 2700K
Halogens come in at about 3200K
Cloudless day is about 5500K
partially overcast day is about 6500K
the whitest area of the chart is around 4000K, so YES 5000K and 6400K lamps will be slightly to somewhat blue.
Feit calls their lamps standard, Cool White, and Daylight. 1000bulbs shows 2700/500/6400K color temps all with the same base PN FC15/FEIIS15Wxx where xx is the color temp 27/5/64
I do not shop dollar stores for CFs. Only big box and internet sites.
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in part:

True!
But one little catch: The requirement even has some for color - which should be good!
I believe part of the color requirement is color rendering index - which "old tech" cool warm white and warm white would not meet, but compact fluorescents normally meet - unless they are of the types usually seen in dollar stores!
Another part is in overall color. I have heard of a specific requirement of 2700-3000 Kelvin so as to have color temperature like that of incandescents and halogens. Here is where I see the glitch: 3200K or 3500K is disqualified, while not being disqualified is a minor deviation from "incandescent color" in the direction of greenish or pinkish-purplish.
I and probably many others would like compact fluorescents that are whiter than the very orange-yellow shade of incandescents as well as compact fluorescents trying to match them in color. Not the 4100K "cool white color", nor the ice-cold-pure-white 5000K (actually roughly typical of midday tropical sunlight), nor the even-more-bluish 6500K, but a "semi-warm-white" or "whitened-incandescent" like the color of projector lamps and photoflood lamps and movie lights - mid-3000's Kelvin! 3500 is one that compact fluorescents are available in and I do like that one, but it is disqualified from energy-star so much less common than more-incandescent-color-temperature!
Back to most color complaints: It appears to me that most color complaints come from a mixture of lights having noticeably different colors, with one being "the newfangled kind". Especially when one is more greenish and the other is more pinkish-purplish, and typically bias is against whatever is "newfangled" or whatever is more greenish - double whammy if a compact fluorescent should glow with the color of a gas mantle - which is why I suspect compact fluorescents and warm-color fluorescents in general are more likely to be purplish-pinkish than greenish.
Now for good color easily-available compact fluorescents:
If you don't like pinkish-purplish, then favor lower wattages, and types with integral electronic ballasts, and especially spirals since those tend to have integral electronic balasts and have some brands doing well in that color area. I have seen good results with Philips and Commercial Electric and Feit Electric in this area. Philips should be good for more-starts duty. Commercial Electric equivalent to 60W incandescent (14 watts) is even slightly more greenish-yellow than incandescent in my experience - but that could make them look ugly if mixed with others or even with incandescents if your are touchy about that - maybe best to use only the same model for every socket in your dining room fixture!
If you don't like greenish and are so greenish-phobic that you don't mind a slight bit of pinkish-purplish, then good would be:
* Sylvania 3000K models - not only slightly whiter than most, but also in my experience slightly pinkish-purplish and I suspect the reason is "greenish-phobia". These could look a little harsh in color by being a bit whiter and pinkish-purplish, but color rendition is actually good!
* Higher wattages, especially 26 watts or more. Keep in mind heat issues, especially in small enclosed fixtures and recessed ceiling fixtures!
* Philips SLS of at least 23 watts. Lower wattages of Philips SLS I find to approximate incandescent well and higher wattages I dind to be very slightly pinkish-purplish.
* Spirals of size unusually compact for their wattage (more when wattage is 19 watts or more) tend to be a bit more pinkish and less greenish.
* PL-13/F13TT, PLC-13 or 26 / F13 or 26 DTT with magnetic ballasts in my experience tend to have their deviations-from-incandescent towards pinkish rather than greenish. Exception: Osram F13DTT/27K, an older model, appears to me dead-on incandescent rather than pinkish.
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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wrote:

I second the comment on Lights of America. It is crap. MG
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I agree with most of this, except 150 watt I would note as incandescent-equivalent and requiring 42-55 watts of compact fluorescent actual wattage. Also, about 5000K being a good color for home use - this is a stark icy cold pure white close to the color of noontime sunlight with unpolluted air in a tropical area - slightly more bluish than "cool white fluorescent".

Yes, there are some that big, and they are big, and I suspect major fixture heating issues - worse even for the bulbs than for the fixtures. Those problems get down to a dull roar when the compact fluorescent wattage is only 26 watts, with light output like that of 100 watt incandescent when things are going well.

I find true only in a couple specific cases:
1. Illuminating areas so large that you have some need of functiobning of night vision - such as large warehouses or yards outdoors at nighttime - the high color temperature has a spectrum favorable to stimulating night vision. Along with the existance of expectation that "dreary gray" illumination is an improvement over "dreary dim".
2. At illumination levels around or above the 1100-2000 lux typical of offices and classrooms.
Otherwise, high color temperatures of 4100K and above can have a "dreary gray" effect only partially mitigated by high color rendering index.

Sun at zenith in a pollution-free area at sea level is 5400 Kelvin. Sun at high noon on a June day with especially strong wind flow of incoming especially-low-pullution air in Washington DC is 5200 Kelvin. Sunlight above the atmosphere is 5700-5800 Kelvin.
5000K often appears slightly bluish. Yes, I do see how the sun often manages to have higher color temperature (more bluish) than cool white fluorescent of 4100-4300 Kelvin and such sunlight does not appear bluish, but 5000K fluorescents tend to appear icy cold pure white to slightly bluish. Part is from being in context, and part is from human vision having a known tendency to prefer lower color temperature at lower illumination levels that are typical for use indoors in homes. I, for one, prefer 3500K. Ideally, I surely like for home use 3600-3700K of tungsten being pushed to a hair short of immediate burnout, or carbon arcs which are roughly 3800-3900K - but these are obviously impractical - but next down my favorite list is 3500K, a "whiter shade of halogenlike but still warm", a standard color temperature of triphosphor fluorescent lamps and a few compacts are available in that color. Next standard one higher is 4100K - the "cool white color", and available with high color rendering index, with compacts normally having color rendering index of 82. But that gets to be a bit on the "stark white" side in most home use. And I thought I more than average liked my lights whiter than incandescent!

Keep an eye on what Home Depot is offering. Somewhat often they have promotional 6-packs of 60-watt-equivalent for $10 with no shipping charge! Target has equivalents to 60, 75 and 100 watts at about $15 per 4-pack everyday price. But if you have a more special need or want to get case quantity pricing, chances are the online suppliers are the best deal. But be aware of the color temperature and have this awareness when the bulb is not "the usual color temperature" of 2700, 2800 or 3000 Kelvin (roughly incandescent color)!
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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Don Klipstein wrote:

for approx same light output about 2600 lumens. Our color preferences are different. I live is a HOT climate, so a COLD appearing light with bluish overtones is psychologically GREAT!!

large area lighting in warehouse/box store lighting and therapeutic applications. I am NOT advocating its use in normal residential applications. It won't screw into a standard fixture as it has a Mogul base. Mogul bases are common in the lighting systems used in the big box stores, especially if they use something other that linear fluorescents.

applications, in part because of where we live. A cool light is a psychological boost in a HOT climate. I wear shorts, sandals, and tee shirts YEAR ROUND. Natural fiber clothing is ALWAYS preferable because it wicks away perspiration MUCH better.
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wrote:

What do you mean by justification? That's the way the manufacturing and market system works, economies of scale.
If they were trying to gouge us, wouldn't they gouge us on the smaller sizes that people buy most of the time? Instead of on the ones we almost never buy.
Especially now with Polish and Hungarian and Chinese lightbulbs on the market. Is anyone trying to compete with US made 150 and if so, what percentage of their 100W bulb price do they charge for 150?

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I thought a 150 watt bulb costs a mediumish-low price of a 4-pack of 100-watt ones (maybe $1.75), and a 50-100-150 watt costs much more still - a little below the $3-$3.50 supermarket price of a 4-pack of 100 watt ones.
It appears to me that supermarkets need to make money from 25-100 watt lightbulbs in order to pay the rent on shelf space for the 150 watt ones that need to be displayed because supermarkets would lose customer loyalty without 150 watt lightbulbs, and also to pay for what they have to give out in pre-Thanksgiving prime shopping period in order to build or maintain year-round market share. Ever notice that supermarkets often don't even have 200 watt lightbulbs? Ever see supermarkets with 300 watt ones - even home centers often don't sell those, but many hardware stores do!
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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Don Klipstein wrote:

multiple brands offered, and is parked at eye level. 75W, 60W are in the same general area, again multiple shelves, mutiple brands. As I recall, at least two full units of rack space, floor to top shelf were devoted to the 60W-75W-100W incandescents
150W had 4 TOTAL bulbs in the store partially hidden by some literature hanging from a vertical riser. Hanging right above them were the compact spiral CFs
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But as with the 'invention' of television, by Baird in Britain it was later claimed by others, including Russia. The 'invention' and use of radar; originally called 'Radiolocation', by the British in 1939 (Battle of Britain etc.) Then invention of the radar magnetron, now used in microwave ovens, by Watson-Watt a Scotsman and so on! Alexander Graham Bell, another Scotsman who emigrated to Canada is credited with 'invention' of the voice telephone.
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Because it's dark in there.

Exactly. He's trying to read about who did.

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sherwindu wrote:

Why would Alexander Bell care? He's dead and doesn't have to pay the price. Besides, it wasn't his baby anyhow... light bulbs were invented by Thomas Edison.
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

snipped-for-privacy@carolina.rr.com.REMOVE
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Price of a standard base 7 1/2 W I just bought was $2.49, same as 4 60s; for the same reasons given here previously: low volume.
Marty
* Normal people believe if it aint broke, don't fix it. Engineers believe if it aint broke, they didn't build enough improvements into it.*
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