What you will have at that point is a house with no gun and a burglar who
has your gun.
What the heck!!! Why, you bleeding heart liberal! How dare you express
concern that some innocent child might get shot. The very nerve. Harrumph.
Correct. This is like the story of the two hunters. After hiking a few
miles into the woods they spotted a grisly bear bounding toward them from a
long way off. The first hunter sat down and started changing his boots for
tennis shoes. The second said, "You can't outrun a bear in tennis shoes."
The second calmly laced up his sneakers and said, "I only need to outrun
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It isnt guaranteed, essentially because no burglar can
be sure that someone inside the house is armed, and
obviously if there is no one in the house when its being
burgled, the gun wont do a damned thing to the burglar.
The big advantage of a dog is that with a suitable dog, even
the stupidest crim should be aware that the dog is there.
Not that easy if the dog is inside the house.
All you normally need to do is provide enough of an
incentive for the crim to loot someone else's house.
Even the stupidest crim can usually be relied on to work that out.
A large dog does tho.
Oh bullshit. What its about is making it obvious that your place is
a hell of a lot more of a hassle to loot that someone else's place.
Irrelevant to whether a suitable dog is more use
than a gun, particularly when there is no one home.
There are other considerations that owners face when dealing with
protection dogs. I can't think of anyone who would want to be in the
place of these dog owners...
Investigation continues into deadly dog mauling attack
02:40 PM PDT on Monday, April 26, 2004
By ABE ESTIMADA, ANTONIA GIEDWOYN and CHRISTINE UMAYAM, KGW Staff
SIFTON, Wash. -- The owners of two dogs that may have been involved in
the mauling and killing of an eight-year-old boy during the weekend
gave up possession of their pets on Monday.
John Streeter, 8, was mauled to death by his neighbor's dogs. The
female dogs, a mix of Bullmastiff and German shepherd, named Diamond
and Precious remain impounded at The Humane Society for Southwest
Washington. At least one of the dogs was involved in the attack, but
it is unknown if both killed Johnny Streeter.
Also, Monday, investigators ruled the cause of death as blunt cervical
trauma, which matches what detectives initially suspected in the dog
While the investigation continues into the attack that killed Johnny,
parents and Evergreen School District officials in southwest
Washington tried to explain to their children and students what
happened on Saturday.
Obviously, they’re going to talk to the kindergartners a little
differently than they’ll talk to the fifth graders, but talk to them
about the fact that a child was attacked by dogs, what happened, and
then just let kids talk, said Carol Fenstermacher, a spokesperson for
the school district.
One of the two mix Bullmastiff-Shepard dogs that mauled the boy. The
dogs haven’t had any problems in the past, said Brittany Gosselin,
director of development for the Humane Society.
This is the first, apparently, that they’ve shown up on anybody’s
radar screen, she said. The sheriff’s department has looked into it.
Animal control has looked into it.
Neighbors said Johnny had often played with the dogs, who were
considered sweet and docile. Bullmastiffs are considered
family-oriented dogs with calm, protective dispositions, according to
the American Kennel Club.
The boy lived next door to the animals. Johnny had apparently gone
next door to play with his 14-year-old and 15-year-old neighbors in
the 14500 block of NE 71st Street in Sifton, a community northeast of
The teens' parents were on vacation away from home when the dogs
attacked, said Sgt. Steve Shea, a spokesman for the Clark County
Sheriff's Office. The parents, whose names haven't been released,
reportedly instructed their children not to let anyone into the
backyard with the two dogs while they were away.
The three kids had been playing inside the home before Streeter
apparently went into the yard when no one was watching.
The 15-year-old girl called 9-1-1 when she saw Streeter in the
backyard with the dogs on top of him, authorities said. Clark County
sheriff's deputies pronounced the boy dead about 7 p.m. Saturday. No
arrests have been made.
After their investigation, the Clark Co. Sheriff's Office Major Crimes
Unit finish will turn the case over to the prosecutor's office.
Authorities with the prosecutor's office will then review the case and
decide if charges should be filed and what will happen to the dogs,
(The Associated Press contributed to this report.)
Mindless stuff. That situation is very easy to avoid, most
obviously keeping the dog inside the house when you are out.
I certainly did do that, basically because I wasnt too keen
on what might happen if one of the neighbour's kids came
over the fence to get a ball back while I wasnt home.
The only marginally undesirable event I ever had was with
one of the neighbour's kids that had his own dog. He used
to come over quite a bit and would normally pat the dog as
the first thing he did. I warned him that it wasnt a good idea
to do that if he was chewing on one of his bones, he was
very defensive of his bones. One day the kid did it when the
dog was chewing his bone, got a pretty enthusiastic snarl.
I'd never actually seen someone turn grey in an instant before |-)
He didnt get bitten or anything.
These don't sound like "protection dogs" to me... Maybe guard or attack
dogs... Never heard of a protection dog hurting ANYONE since they aren't
trained to attack (actually trained NOT to attack).
This is exactly the case. We live in a nice, fairly
upper-middle-class sort of neighborhood. Not the place for art or
jewel thieves, but a great place for finding TVs, VCRs, computers, and
other electronic toys.
When we talked to a deputy sheriff about security and alarms and
stuff, he said that no one could keep a truly determined thief out,
but it was easy to deflect a casual thief. The whole idea is to make
sure your house isn't a target of opportunity. Deadbolts, a dog,
foliage clipped back from doors and windows, motion-sensing lights, a
security system--these would deflect the casual thief to another house
It's like the joke about the two hunters in bear country. When one
told the other that he couldn't outrun a bear, the fellow observed
that he didn't have to outrun the bear, he just had to outrun his
buddy. That applies to security in suburbia, too.
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer
She'll only "savage your ankles" when you're wearing special socks. We leave a
pair by the front door with a simple sign that reads: "Now that you've taken
the trouble to break in to our home, please be so kind as to remove your shoes
and pull on these socks. We keep all the expensive jewellery in the laundry
room." Guess where the cat usually sleeps... :-))
No. Jeez. I don't wish to be drawn into another endless gun argument with
you. I own guns, and know how to use them. I also know that good physical
security and a properly installed security alarm system are more effective
deterrents. Your gun is just property waiting to be stolen, unless you'll be
there with it 24/7/365.
True, and its a vastly better deterrent than any alarm system too.
Its got some downsides tho, mine was so keen to go for a run
in the car that I never had the heart to leave him behind when
it was at all possible to take him with me when out of the house.
Caused a rather hilarious result when I had him in the computer
room at work one weekend and one of users came into the room.
The dog had him bailed up against the wall in
a flash and the wimp nearly died of fright |-)
There (of course) are a couple of different types of systems on the market. You
should know which type you want to go with prior to pre-wiring your new house.
One type are two-wire (addressable) systems which only use 2 wires for power,
signal, etc. and are read by their addresses on the circuit. These systems
install in that somewhat of a daisy chain so you can run a wire to one device,
from there to another, etc etc. Also there are standard devices which are
addressed by which terminal they are installed to in the panel. Personally, I
prefer this type of system as if one device fails, atleast the rest of your
property will be covered. So depending on the type of system that interests you
most, I would go with 22/2 wire for the addressable and 22/4 or 22/6 wire for
the standard or more common system type. Then again, there is always wireless
(no one tell paul I said that). As far as what and where you will need as far as
devices, I would have to see the place to make this decision. To start, I would
place door contacts on all entryways and a smoke/carbon monoxide detector in the
utility and garage areas. Instead of wiring all of your windows with contacts,
place a motion detector in each room where a lot of windows will be installed
aimed towards the windows. Roughly, I think a 500ft box of 22ga. wire runs about
$2-300 depending on where you get it.
| I am building a new house, and as an almost afterthought, I want to install
| prewiring for an alarm system. I am thinking of just prewiring the system for
| now, and purchase the system/subscription later. The drywall is not up, so
| this should be reasonably easy to do.
| System wise, I don't want to commit to a particular system/vendor yet, and I
| want flexibility of choosing from different provider later. I assume that all
| the wires are compatible amongst the many different systems (ie, the three
| wires for power, ground, and signal, same gauge requirements, etc)? If not,
| what should I look for?
| What can I expect to pay for this? How do I spot a good installer? What
| questions do I ask? How many sensors should I install (I am thinking all the
| doors, all the windows, fire, water, smoke, low O2 (is there such thing), what
| else am I missing?)?
Ahh, fuck you anyway. Motion detectors facing windows don't cause any problems.
You are one paul would call "A so called pro"
| on Mon, 26 Apr 2004 01:54:23 GMT,
| >To start, I would
| >place door contacts on all entryways and a smoke/carbon monoxide detector in
| >utility and garage areas.
| Nope - we don't put smoke detectors in garages or utility rooms....
| > Instead of wiring all of your windows with contacts,
| Nope - Now is the best time to get the windows wired for contacts.
| And motion detectors won't be on when the homeowner is home - so we DO
| wire the windows Mr. Anonymous
| >place a motion detector in each room where a lot of windows will be installed
| >aimed towards the windows
| Nope - we don't aim motion detectors right at windows!
| You better stick to debating Paul about wireless dude.
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