Prewiring alarm for a new house

[Pop Rivet]

I want to install

prewiring the system for

drywall is not up, so

Hi John,

It is VERY wise to prewire for an alarm system. However, due to the huge number of variations between systems, you really should window-shop the residential alarm business and target the installation for one or two of the available systems to be precisely chosen at a later date. Research should initially include, IMO, things such as:

-- Local codes, if any, regarding residential alarms.

-- Telco requirements/rules regarding residential alarms.

-- Install method: Open loop wiring closed loop wiring, digital, RF (radio transmitters and receivers), eg the types of systems available.

-- Personally, I prefer,and use, and RF system; no wiring except ac to the main equipment box (with internal battery backup operation).

-- Type/level of protection needed -- Fire? -- Burglary? -- Remote Appliance Controls? -- Listen-in features? -- Flooding? -- Freeezing? -- Motion? -- Alarm Monitoring Company to respond to alarms? -- and so on thru glass breakage detectors, and many more.

-- How many zones are required? I have 6 available, each capable of 8 alarms. Not all used.

So, basically, you need to post more information if you would like good answers, IMO. If you're ignorant of many of these items, as most people are, then some online research can help considerably.

On the other hand, if you are going to have this installed for you, then I would get a couple of quotes from a couple of installers of alarm systems. Probably more accurate.

Radio Shack is a good place to start research, believe it or not. Try a Google search for "residential alarm systems" (including the quotes) and you'll get a plethora of links where you can learn a LOT, and get edumacated about alarm systems.

If you wish to come back here, I'll be happy to answer questions where I can, or at least maybe give you a source where you can find answers.

Here are a couple of clarifications/corrections to some incorrect information I saw posted to you:

CAT 5 (Category 5) wire:

-- Is NOT stranded wire; it's solid, 24 gauge wire, 4 pairs, 8 conductors total, in a sheath a little larger than the standard telephone wiring.

-- CAT 5 wire is NOT large: it fits easily thru a 1/4" drilled hole.

-- There was a lot of talk about "4 wire" and while much of the phone wiring is actually 4 wire, and only 2 of those are used, keep in mind that they are in a 6 pin plug, not a 4 pin. It's called RJ-11.

-- There was talk about difficulty closing a window becvause of wire size or somethbing like that: that would not be a good insallation and isn't normal. Ignore it, IMO.

-- There is nothing that would require CAT 5 cabling, but, that said, should you ever wish to network computers together later on, you'd be mighty glad to have it already in place. Maybe a separate issue there. There are RF networks too, that avoid wiring between computers, but they're not very good. Yet. Improving though.

closet or out of

== NO, the main alarm equipment BOX, which contains the logic and computer controls, is usually located in a separate closet! The "control panel" is usually located convenient to the most used exit for convenience in arm/disarm ing the system. There are often other sub-control panels, smaller in size and function, located to serve the garage, back door, wherever they are deemed needed.

sometimes smoke

plus may == ONLY if three separate alarm systems were installed, which wouldn't make much sense. These days there is usually only one external power pack IFF it's a Class-2 system, and as often as not, in a quality system, there is no external power pack; it's insecure to have external power packs. The better systems are hard wired. Outlets should be nearby, preferrably two duplex outlets, but ... not for several alarm system components.

== There SHOULD be a dedicated breaker for the alarm ckt, however.

HTH. Any questions as you get going, happy to try to help or at least find a source for your answers.

Pop

[G. Morgan]

Someone named "Pop Rivet" Proclaimed on Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:14:14 -0400,

I wanted to elaborate on your post Pop.

This is true..

So far so good..

Hard-wired systems are better for a variety of reasons:

1> no batteries to replace 2> no unsightly transmitters near windows and doors 3> wireless systems tend to be "deaf" and "dumb" due to RFI (they get muzzled) and you can't use wireless stereo headphones near a wireless alarm. 4> 5> ignore #3 (inside joke)

All good points! Soon to be announced at an alarm company near you - Video Verification! Yes indeed - we'll need to see the crime in progress before the local constabulary gets called..

Yuck!!

Not.

That's incorrect, Cat5 is available in stranded too - in fact most pre-fab patch cords are stranded Cat5 cable.

Not *easily* - it would be a royal pain in the ass to push Cat5 through a series of 20 studs that just had a 1/4" hole. It does not cost any more to drill a bigger hole, plus multiple cable are going to be pulled through the holes.

That's true. But the phone jack an alarm panel uses is called an RJ-31x jack. It's used to quickly disconnect the alarm system from the premises phone line. Read about it here:

Cat5 (now Cat6) pre wiring for a computer network is almost essential for a new home nowadays.

Really? I have a wireless network with a D-Link IEEE 802.11g router/access point and it works like a charm.

Sorry, Pops. The "control panel" is the "brain" of the system - It goes in the closet. You're thinking of *keypads* that are used to arm/dis-arm the system.

It's a class-2 transformer that steps down 120V to 12-24 volts AC that the control panel gets it's power from. Sometimes in larger systems the control panel does not have a big enough power supply to support all the field devices so a separate power supply may be used, this will require another transformer to be plugged into an existing outlet.

No it's not - the transformer is plugged inside the protected area, besides, if you broke in and unplugged it the control panel has a back up battery to finish dialing the monitoring center.

You'll only find that commercial fire systems are hard wired.

???????

That is mandatory according to NFPA 72 for commercial fire alarms, but not necessary for residential burg.

-Graham

[default]

Right.

According to the CDC, there were 802 unintentional firearms deaths in 2001, nationwide. By contrast, there were 3,923 drownings.

[Beachcomber]

There are other considerations that owners face when dealing with protection dogs. I can't think of anyone who would want to be in the place of these dog owners...

Investigation continues into deadly dog mauling attack

Source:

02:40 PM PDT on Monday, April 26, 2004 By ABE ESTIMADA, ANTONIA GIEDWOYN and CHRISTINE UMAYAM, KGW Staff

SIFTON, Wash. -- The owners of two dogs that may have been involved in the mauling and killing of an eight-year-old boy during the weekend gave up possession of their pets on Monday.

John Streeter, 8, was mauled to death by his neighbor's dogs. The female dogs, a mix of Bullmastiff and German shepherd, named Diamond and Precious remain impounded at The Humane Society for Southwest Washington. At least one of the dogs was involved in the attack, but it is unknown if both killed Johnny Streeter.

Also, Monday, investigators ruled the cause of death as blunt cervical trauma, which matches what detectives initially suspected in the dog attack.

While the investigation continues into the attack that killed Johnny, parents and Evergreen School District officials in southwest Washington tried to explain to their children and students what happened on Saturday.

Obviously, they?re going to talk to the kindergartners a little differently than they?ll talk to the fifth graders, but talk to them about the fact that a child was attacked by dogs, what happened, and then just let kids talk, said Carol Fenstermacher, a spokesperson for the school district.

One of the two mix Bullmastiff-Shepard dogs that mauled the boy. The dogs haven?t had any problems in the past, said Brittany Gosselin, director of development for the Humane Society.

This is the first, apparently, that they?ve shown up on anybody?s radar screen, she said. The sheriff?s department has looked into it. Animal control has looked into it.

Neighbors said Johnny had often played with the dogs, who were considered sweet and docile. Bullmastiffs are considered family-oriented dogs with calm, protective dispositions, according to the American Kennel Club.

The boy lived next door to the animals. Johnny had apparently gone next door to play with his 14-year-old and 15-year-old neighbors in the 14500 block of NE 71st Street in Sifton, a community northeast of Vancouver.

The teens' parents were on vacation away from home when the dogs attacked, said Sgt. Steve Shea, a spokesman for the Clark County Sheriff's Office. The parents, whose names haven't been released, reportedly instructed their children not to let anyone into the backyard with the two dogs while they were away.

The three kids had been playing inside the home before Streeter apparently went into the yard when no one was watching.

The 15-year-old girl called 9-1-1 when she saw Streeter in the backyard with the dogs on top of him, authorities said. Clark County sheriff's deputies pronounced the boy dead about 7 p.m. Saturday. No arrests have been made.

After their investigation, the Clark Co. Sheriff's Office Major Crimes Unit finish will turn the case over to the prosecutor's office. Authorities with the prosecutor's office will then review the case and decide if charges should be filed and what will happen to the dogs, Shea said.

(The Associated Press contributed to this report.)

[Rod Speed]

More fool you.

Mindless stuff. That situation is very easy to avoid, most obviously keeping the dog inside the house when you are out.

I certainly did do that, basically because I wasnt too keen on what might happen if one of the neighbour's kids came over the fence to get a ball back while I wasnt home.

The only marginally undesirable event I ever had was with one of the neighbour's kids that had his own dog. He used to come over quite a bit and would normally pat the dog as the first thing he did. I warned him that it wasnt a good idea to do that if he was chewing on one of his bones, he was very defensive of his bones. One day the kid did it when the dog was chewing his bone, got a pretty enthusiastic snarl. I'd never actually seen someone turn grey in an instant before |-)

He didnt get bitten or anything.

[Another Anonymous]

Ahh, f*ck you anyway. Motion detectors facing windows don't cause any problems. You are one paul would call "A so called pro" haha

[anomynous]

What if you had a 15 feet ceiling? Most motions are to be mounted 7.5 feet from the floor.

[Mary Shafer]

[Snip]

This is exactly the case. We live in a nice, fairly upper-middle-class sort of neighborhood. Not the place for art or jewel thieves, but a great place for finding TVs, VCRs, computers, and other electronic toys.

When we talked to a deputy sheriff about security and alarms and stuff, he said that no one could keep a truly determined thief out, but it was easy to deflect a casual thief. The whole idea is to make sure your house isn't a target of opportunity. Deadbolts, a dog, foliage clipped back from doors and windows, motion-sensing lights, a security system--these would deflect the casual thief to another house without them.

It's like the joke about the two hunters in bear country. When one told the other that he couldn't outrun a bear, the fellow observed that he didn't have to outrun the bear, he just had to outrun his buddy. That applies to security in suburbia, too.

Mary

[Frank Olson]

[Frank Olson]

All this talk of dogs and bears... we have a "killer" attack cat... :-))

[Rod Speed]

Yeah, I did too when I was a teenager.

No deterrence for a crim tho, its approach was to lurk invisibly and savage your ankles as you walked past |-)

[Aegis]

43,987 deaths by motor vehicles... ban those THEN talk to me about banning guns.

[George Wenzel]

Problem is, if a burglar breaks in, takes your gun, and kills you with it, it's not considered an "unintentional firearms death". It's considered a homicide. There were definitely more than 802 gun-related homicides in the USA in 2001.

Oh, and there were probably far more people who suffered unintentional firearm-related injuries (aka gunshots) than the number who were killed unintentionally.

Regards,

George Wenzel

[Aegis]

Source:

These don't sound like "protection dogs" to me... Maybe guard or attack dogs... Never heard of a protection dog hurting ANYONE since they aren't trained to attack (actually trained NOT to attack).

[Aegis]

I NEVER answer my door unless I am expecting a visitor.

My wife and I are both well-trained in firearms and their use as it pertains to home defense (hint: pistol = bad idea). No children by choice.

[Frank Olson]

She'll only "savage your ankles" when you're wearing special socks. We leave a pair by the front door with a simple sign that reads: "Now that you've taken the trouble to break in to our home, please be so kind as to remove your shoes and pull on these socks. We keep all the expensive jewellery in the laundry room." Guess where the cat usually sleeps... :-))

[Aegis]

Huh?

"unintentional firearm-related injuries" would be encompassed by the catagoroy "number who were killed unintentionally" so how could the former have a higher number than the latter?

[Robert L. Bass]

What you will have at that point is a house with no gun and a burglar who has your gun.

What the heck!!! Why, you bleeding heart liberal! How dare you express concern that some innocent child might get shot. The very nerve. Harrumph. :^)

Correct. This is like the story of the two hunters. After hiking a few miles into the woods they spotted a grisly bear bounding toward them from a long way off. The first hunter sat down and started changing his boots for tennis shoes. The second said, "You can't outrun a bear in tennis shoes."

The second calmly laced up his sneakers and said, "I only need to outrun you." :^)

Alarm and Home Automation System FAQ

Regards, Robert

=============================>

Bass Home Electronics

2291 Pine View Circle Sarasota · Florida · 34231 877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support 941-925-9747 Fax [phone] Wireless Nextel Private ID - 161*21755*1

[spenzdad]

My God! If your familys saftey is a concern...DO NOT USE THIS GROUP FOR ADVISE OR GIVE OUT ANY INFORMATION. If you deal with someone from this newsgroup you better keep one eye open while your sleep at night! this is the worse place to look for info for your home security. This group is a hive of activity to get your confidence then rip your off. Get "help" from here and next think your house is cleaned out and inexplicably your alarm didnt work......or worse..... Be very very careful using this group. Be sure to closely investigate (primarily if you buy online) any of the online alarm seller, especially if they claim a ASA certification, a totally false and misleading certification (see that later). You wouldn't want to buy from someone whose sideline is understanding your alarm system for the purpose of exploiting it later byknowing your codes or maintenance access numbers. Be wary of those who do not have a brick and mortar store.

When I was shopping and using this newsgroup some online dealers advertised a ASA certification with a picture of a ASA emblem shown on their website. It gives a good first impression but when you look into it you find out that it was nothing more then some....guy.... creating a website to supposedly post complaints, with no entries of complaints or follow-through. It was analogous to someone flashing a police badge that turns out to be fake. The ASA moniker is a badge without any accreditation and surely this is misleading and a scam.

Some of the free advice you get is not because of someone's unselfish need to make the world a better place to live. Most are giving you advice on the hope of getting a sale or...."other" information. Listen but don't act on the advice until you can confirm or gain some trust in the source by researching them.

Sometimes you can learn a lot about sellers by plugging in email address or screenname into a Google search of past news postings. You will be surprised, .....no..MAKE THAT SHOCKED....AND I MEAN SHOCKED!!!!..... at what you find out about those offering to outfit your alarm. How can our legal system let these type of people sell home security!!!!!

This is a very unregulated online business, and especially risky for something as important as YOUR HOME security.

good luck....and go talk to someone reputible.

[Robert L. Bass]

Oh, my goodness! I just posted that joke in response to an earlier post in this thread.