Pre-treat weeds with soapy water before spraying weed killer?

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On Sun, 13 Jul 2014 20:31:34 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@sbcglobal.net"

few spoonfulls of diesel fuel does the trick - it acts as a surfactant, wetting the leaves more effectively
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On 7/14/2014 8:07 AM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I can imagine diesel and ivy oil mixing, but that doesn't make it a surfactant.
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Christopher A. Young
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On 7/14/14, 8:21 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

you. It's the sap. Hedge shears give a nice reach and can be rinsed afterward.
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trader_4 wrote:

FWIW and for anyone who cares , QUIT KILLING THE BEES ! Just about every one of those compounds for killing weeds has an effect on our pollinators . Add in the effects of neonic and other pesticides and you can end up with colony collapse disorder , where the bees just wander off <apparently> and die . It wouldn't take a bomb to bring this country down , just one crop sprayer full of pesticides at the right time and right place could kill up to 3/4 of the bees in this country , and without them we'd starve ...
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On Monday, July 14, 2014 8:54:13 AM UTC-4, Terry Coombs wrote:

Nice theory, except that so far, scientists investigating colony collapse disorder haven't reached any conclusion as to the cause. If they don't kno w, neither do you.

One crop sprayer? Really? Just how dumb do you think we are? Good grief.
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Tony Hwang wrote:

Eliminating dogs would be a big benefit actually...
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Terry Coombs used improper usenet message composition style by unnecessarily full-quoting:

I think you're confusing herbicides and insecticides.
Herbicides have no designed or documented effects directly on insects as far as I know, apart from reducing potential pollen sources from flowering weeds.
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sodium doesn't go away either. It just stays in your soil forever. Not for me.
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On 7/14/2014 10:00 AM, Pico Rico wrote:

So, why is there not a foot of rock salt along the side of the road?
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Good thing about Roundup and other products that only contain glyphostate and no other harmful chemicals is that it is almost harmless to people and animals with normal usage. You could probably drink small quanties and have almost no effect. Maybe like a good dose of Exlax. You would think somthing that would kill almost all plant life would be very dangerous to people, but turns out it is one of the safest chemical grass and weed killers.
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On Monday, July 14, 2014 7:03:53 AM UTC-7, Ralph Mowery wrote:

And it goes inert once it reaches the soil. Probably one of the most benign herbicides ever invented.
Harry K
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J Burns wrote: Stormin Mormon wrote:

Why do you have your line-length set to 50-odd characters instead of, say, 72?
Regarding roundup, the only place I use that is in my parkinglot at $dayjob and on the road in front of my house (in the cracks around the curbs) or on my driveway. There is no other place where spraying roundup in my yard wouldn't kill either grass or something that my SO would kill me for.

I buy Roundup in premixed 5-liter hand-pump sprayer:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41PD3g7sAdL.jpg
When it's all used up, I clean it with hot water, use some lacquer thinner to wipe away the painted-on label, and use it as a sprayer for Ortho weed-b-gon.
The Roundup I buy in that 5-liter ready-to-use sprayer contains:
- glyphosate (present as isopropylamine salt)
preservatives - 5-chloro-2-methyl-4-isothiazolin-3-one - 2-methyl-4-isothiazolin-3-one
Nothing else is listed. No other chemicals, no surfactants.
Could those "preservatives" function as surfactants?
According to this:
http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/dienochlor-glyphosate/glyphosate-ext.html
=================Glyphosate is practically non-toxic to fish. However, Roundup was more toxic to fish than was glyphosate. An additive used in the Roundup formulation (modified tallow amine used as a surfactant) is apparently more toxic to fish than many common surfactants. For this reason, the formulation for use in aquatic situations (Rodeo) omits this ingredient. The surfactant is used to allow the compound to readily dissolve in solution and to keep the compound from balling up on the leaf surface. ================== This is wikipedia's page for polyethoxylated tallow amine surfactants:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethoxylated_tallow_amine
==============Roundup Pro is a formulation of glyphosate that contains a phosphate ester neutralized polyethoxylated tallow amine surfactant; as of 1997 there was no published information regarding the chemical differences between the surfactant in Roundup and Roundup Pro.
The polyethoxylated tallow amine used as a surfactant in Roundup is referred to in the literature as MON 0139 or polyoxyethyleneamine (POEA). Presumably, the Roundup surfactant is a derivative of tallow, a complex mixture of fat from the fatty tissue of cattle or sheep.
POEA is 15% of Roundup formulations and the phosphate ester neutralized polyethoxylated tallow amine surfactant is 14.5% of Roundup Pro.
Surfactants are generally required to be used with glyphosate to allow effective uptake of glyphosate, which is hydrophilic, across plant cuticles, which are hydrophobic, and reduces the amount of glyphosate washed off plants by rain. ============== Does premixed Roundup available in the US contain surfactants?
I spray insecticidal soap on a few locust trees to kill aphids, and might start mixing it with Roundup and Weed-B-Gon as an experiment. This soap contains:
- Alkanolamine salts of fatty acids (25%)
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On Monday, July 14, 2014 10:39:46 AM UTC-4, H o m e G u y wrote:

That alone is proof enough that you're truly the village idiot.
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wrote:

affected by the oil, but just touching the plant - not squashing it, can cause SERIOUS reactions to a large percentage of the population.
And burning it can be VERY dangerous, as the smoke carries the irritant into the lungs and eyes as well.
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On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 08:21:58 -0400, Stormin Mormon

wetting the leaves more effectively.
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In belched:

why do you continuely morph? is it because your an asshole or you do you have an identity problem
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Full-quoting google-giggler piece of shit trader_4 wrote:

For one thing you piece of shit, I buy it when it's sale ($20).
Second, the retail availability of various lawn-care products have been drastically reduced (and in most cases, banned) here in Ontario, which includes the concentrated version of Roundup. The 5-liter (1.3 gallon) ready-to-use spray is the largest I can buy. Since I don't have acres and acres of real estate to nuke of all plant life, I don't have much of a need for the concentrate anyways.
Got that - you dumb shit?
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On Monday, July 14, 2014 11:47:50 AM UTC-4, H o m e G u y wrote:

Wow, $20 for 5 litres of ready-to-use Roundup. What a great deal! And you claim it's Americans that are dumb?

Wow, how can that be? I thought Canada was perfect in every way. I guess you must be too dumb to figure out how to order some online too.
The 5-liter (1.3 gallon)

Yes, you're still the village idiot. Pre-spraying weeds with detergent? What an idiot.
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Bob F wrote:

I don't use enough roundup to make it a real concern. I don't have a lot of area (on a sq. footage basis) to nuke of all plant life. Due to political retardation, concentrated roundup is not available at the retail level where I am.

You can buy concentrated roundup that comes in a pump sprayer?
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Bob F wrote:

I reformat ALL of the text that I quote so that it remains properly formatted.
AND - for those dumb-ass full-quoters, you shouldn't be dragging the same text through multiple chain-replies anyways. These are not email conversations were having. This is usenet, where the entire thread is ALWAYS AVAILABLE and there is NO NEED TO DRAG OLD TEXT INTO SEVERAL GENERATIONS OF REPLIES.
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