Pool heat pump - How many BTUs?

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iCal) puts out 112,000 BTUs (40 amps/5.8 KW).  I'm thinking that a larger unit that puts out 141,000 BTUs (50 amps/6.4KW), would heat the pool quick er and require less time on, thus use, in theory, less electricity - but it 's about $500 more expensive than the small

ot sure how long it will take to break even on this with running it for onl y a couple days per week.

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23kW is only ~80 btu/hr ..... not much of a pool heater. :(
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opiCal) puts out 112,000 BTUs (40 amps/5.8 KW).  I'm thinking that a larg er unit that puts out 141,000 BTUs (50 amps/6.4KW), would heat the pool qui cker and require less time on, thus use, in theory, less electricity - but it's about $500 more expensive than the small

 Not sure how long it will take to break even on this with running it for only a couple days per week.

thinking skewed?  Is it worth the extra cost?

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No one uses resistance electric to heat a pool. The discussion was about using a heat pump. A heat pump should have about 4X+ heat output compared to electicity used. So, using those numbers, you'd be getting 320K+ btus.
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opiCal) puts out 112,000 BTUs (40 amps/5.8 KW).  I'm thinking that a larg er unit that puts out 141,000 BTUs (50 amps/6.4KW), would heat the pool qui cker and require less time on, thus use, in theory, less electricity - but it's about $500 more expensive than the small

 Not sure how long it will take to break even on this with running it for only a couple days per week.

thinking skewed?  Is it worth the extra cost?

me

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23Kw is 80,000 btu/hr approx. (3412 btu = I Kwh) Times say four for a heat pump in ideal conditions.
But anyway the home heating (gas) boiler is usually used over here.
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On Fri, 24 May 2013 09:47:25 -0700 (PDT), harry

If a 240V device is connected to a neutral, then there's an electrician whose license needs to be revoked. Retroactively.
What's usually called single phase is really two-phase -- two phases 180 degrees apart. Three-phase has the phases 120 degrees apart. Two phase is fine for balancing. You really only need three-phase for certain kinds of electric motors, which for obvious reasons aren't put in appliances destined for residential use.
With either 2-phase or 3-phase, appliances which need 120V are attached to one phase and a neutral. With 2-phase, appliances which need 240V are attached to both phases. With 3-phase, appliances which need 208V are attached to any two phases (dig out your trigonometry to figure out where the 208V comes from). Three-phase motors are more complicated ...
Edward
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On Thu, 30 May 2013 17:07:31 -0400, Edward Reid

Are ovens and clothes dryers 240V? Every modern installation has a neutral.

Wrong. It's really a single split phase.

Completely wrong. Three phase isn't put in appliances for residential use because three phase isn't installed in residences in the US. In many places it's not even available at the street in residential neighborhoods.

Wrong. Don't give up your day job.
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On May 31, 12:36 pm, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

That is what it's called in terms of power distribution, but he is correct that it can be viewed as two phases. Graph the waveforms of the two hots and you clearly have two different voltage waveforms present, with one 180deg off from the other. Graph a 3 phase and you have 3 seperate waveforms, off by 120deg.

Sure 3 phase isn't available in homes. But even if it was, as he correctly points out, there is no need for it with small, cheap fractional horsepower motors like found in home appliances.
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Another US power pissing contest.
The normal home service of 240 volts is single phase with a center tap. There are actually some real 2 phase systems, but not in most of the homes.
I would like to see how one plans on hooking up a 3 phase 208 volt appliance to only two of the phases of a 3 phase system..
In areas that do have 3 phase 208 volt systems, it is easy to get 120 volts. That is from one of the phases to a center of a Y network. Same as you get 277 volts single phase from a 480 volt 3 phase system that is common in large plants.
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On Fri, 31 May 2013 13:14:23 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"

With a capacitor? In fact you can run a 3p motor on single phase with a capacitor.
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On Fri, 31 May 2013 13:14:23 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"

If you don't like facts, please don't confuse others with your bullshit.

Show me one.

Three phase? All three present. Easy, a rotary phase converter (AKA 3-phase motor).

Such are the shifting goal posts...
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snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote in

Completely wrong. Stick to jerking off and leave the electrical to guys who know about it.
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Idiot. I am an EE.
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snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote in

Well then, you are an idiot EE. There are lots of them in that field.
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On Fri, 31 May 2013 12:36:49 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Yes, they are 240V. (At least in the US. My comments apply to the US. All these can be built for 120V, or for 12V or for 1200V, but 240V is a good compromise for minimizing the wire diameter needed and minimizing the risk from high voltage in a residence.)
Most ovens and dryers will have a neutral run to them, but that's because they are multiple appliances in a single box. Specifically, they are a light bulb, a heating element, an electronic controller (in modern units), and in many cases a fan. The heating element is 240V and is not attached to the neutral. The light bulb is 120V and is attached to the neutral and one of the hot legs. Fans may vary but will be one of the two. The neutral is not used for the 240V part.
The compressor side of a split system A/C, or a package unit A/C or heat pump, may well have only the two hot legs and no neutral. It contains only the compressor and probably a heat exchanger fan, and these can both be 240V. It might contain electronics, but the electronics are fed through a step-down transformer within the unit anyway.
In all of these cases the major load -- the heating element for ovens and dryers, the compressor and probably the heat exchanger fan in A/C compressors -- uses the two hot legs and not the neutral, and thus is incapable of causing an imbalance, which was the comment I was responding to.
Edward
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On Fri, 31 May 2013 15:18:28 -0400, Edward Reid

True but irrelevant.

True but irrelevant. They *are*.

True, but also irrelevant.

Did you have a point?
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On Wed, 05 Jun 2013 13:04:23 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

A point? This is Usenet. Wash your mouth out with soap. ;-)
Edward
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wrote:

puts out 112,000 BTUs (40 amps/5.8 KW).  I'm thinking that a larger unit that puts out 141,000 BTUs (50 amps/6.4KW), would heat the pool quicker and require less time on, thus use, in theory, less electricity - but it's abo ut $500 more expensive than the small

e how long it will take to break even on this with running it for only a co uple days per week.

g skewed?  Is it worth the extra cost?

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Virtually never used. Most homes here have wet heating systems. This boiler can easily be used to heat the pool via a heat exchanger.
Where there is no gas, either oil or propane is used. Heat pumps are being offered in the last ten years or so but there are icing problems on the evaporators in our climate.
There are big differences too between the UK and USA in energy costs and how the tariff is structured.
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) puts out 112,000 BTUs (40 amps/5.8 KW).  I'm thinking that a larger uni t that puts out 141,000 BTUs (50 amps/6.4KW), would heat the pool quicker a nd require less time on, thus use, in theory, less electricity - but it's a bout $500 more expensive than the small

ure how long it will take to break even on this with running it for only a couple days per week.

ing skewed?  Is it worth the extra cost?

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Sure, who should we believe? You who doesn't even have any experience with a pool or all the companies obviously selling heat pump based heaters?

What most do doesn't mean there isn't a viable market for heat pump systems. Most pools here in the US don't have heat pump systems either. Matters not a wit. If the application is right, they can be the right choice.

Icing on a pool heat pump? Icing indeed!

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wrote:

al) puts out 112,000 BTUs (40 amps/5.8 KW).  I'm thinking that a larger u nit that puts out 141,000 BTUs (50 amps/6.4KW), would heat the pool quicker and require less time on, thus use, in theory, less electricity - but it's about $500 more expensive than the small

sure how long it will take to break even on this with running it for only a couple days per week.

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Due to the climate, outdoor pools are unusual here, Of the few that exist a tiny percentage are heated. Indoor pools are obviously vastly more expensive and these too are rare. How many outdoor pools are there in Alaska?
Doesn't the evaporator in you freezer ice up you dolt? Why therefore shouldn't the evaporator in any heat pump ice up?
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On Fri, 24 May 2013 23:15:35 -0700 (PDT), harry

puts out 112,000 BTUs (40 amps/5.8 KW).  I'm thinking that a larger unit that puts out 141,000 BTUs (50 amps/6.4KW), would heat the pool quicker and require less time on, thus use, in theory, less electricity - but it's about $500 more expensive than the small

how long it will take to break even on this with running it for only a couple days per week.

Perhaps because the evaporator doesn't get cold enough? You do know that outdoor pools are used during the summer? Speaking of dolt!
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On May 25, 10:14 am, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

piCal) puts out 112,000 BTUs (40 amps/5.8 KW). I'm thinking that a larger u nit that puts out 141,000 BTUs (50 amps/6.4KW), would heat the pool quicker and require less time on, thus use, in theory, less electricity - but it's about $500 more expensive than the small

re how long it will take to break even on this with running it for only a c ouple days per week.

nking skewed? Is it worth the extra cost?

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Hide quoted text -

Yeah, an evaporator on a pool heat pump freezing up is about as dumb as dumb gets. You have to love the strawman about Alaska. The OP is talking about using a heat pump for a pool in Florida and harry turns it into Alaska. Good grief! No one claimed a heat pump was a viable solution for Alaska.
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