I know I'd go home and crawl under the bed and stuff pillows in my ears. So, that would work for me.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus
Remember the recent test for FEMA? All television, radio broadcast were to be interrupted for a test emergency message.... some people only heard a song from Lady Gaga.
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in news:XB8Jq.1849$ snipped-for-privacy@news.usenetserver.com:
IANAL, but I'd argue that the stuff in plain view wasn't admissable evidence in this case.
OTOH, if the person occupying the house was "out of sorts" and unable to perform the simple task of preventing the fire, the insurance company might argue that it isn't responsible for the damage that could easily have been prevented by a lucid human being. But that is all very much conjecture.
Someone else mentioned gas and I have an aversion to the gas company in this city. I use a minimum of heating oil. I supplement with a small electric, heater in my bedroom when needed and for the living space it seems to stay ok for me. I do a bit of cooking, with gas, and it heats up areas pretty nicely. I installed my heater in the basement years ago, maybe 30 or so, a Weil-McLain and it is still doing a good job at less than 1 gal per hour. I think the most I have used in a real cold year was about 6,000 bucks. So far this year about 200 bucks. I have thought of going with a new modern gas heater but my 21 year old daughter will have the house someday, I will be 70 this next year and I hope she will not have to do too much to maintain this big and wonderful old row home. Hopefully I can be around for a long time yet.
This has been litigated many times and the answer is always on the side of the authorities.
Exigent circumstances trumps even the Constitution.
Could a member of government (e.g., a firefighter) kick down the door if flames were seen through the window? Could a cop force entry if cries for help were heard? Should an EPA monitor wait when he sees and incandescent bulb?
In the instant case, the chance of death, injury, or serious property damage is probable unless preventative action is taken.
Now what's interesting is what might happen while the cop is IN the house. Suppose he sees bomb making material or chemicals for making meth or a stash of illegal guns? I'll tell you what happens:
The homeowner get a long stay in the Grey Bar Hotel.
" snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@s5g2000vbj.googlegroups.com:
For the record, I'm totally with you on this ...
Happy Holidays to all!
ROFL:
Now there is time to give them notice ?
You mean that the entire area should remain with no gas service so that "proper notice" can be given to the property owners that an emergency exists and the gas company needs access to your meter and inside piping to purge the lines...
ROFL...
So you are in favor of making EVERYONE wait another 48 to 72 hours just so this "notice" can be given before any work is done ?
~~ Evan
Umm... The police nor the locksmiths in this case entered any of the homes affected... The police were there to guard the properties against theft as detail officers to supervise the locksmith as a non-interested 3rd party to prevent any claims of liability for theft against the gas company... A.K.A. "paid witnesses"...
The local building code officials, state environmental officials, state health officials, state fire marshals DO NOT need a warrant or your permission to ENTER your home at any time, if their duties or the situation requires entry when you are not home or if you have chosen to refuse access then a locksmith will be called to effect entry only because such agencies don't fell like knocking your door in and dealing with a damage claims process...
To answer your question about the theoretical "rookie cop" contraband in "plain view" may be seized, whether or not the police could swear out a warrant to arrest the owner of a home based on taking the contraband is another thing entirely, there would be a circumstantial case of possession based on the concept of "constructive possession" where everyone who had access to the areas of the house where the items were found could be construed to be in possession of those items -- but the government would have to prove that the owner of said property knew those items were there if they wanted to get a conviction...
It is not precedence of any kind, the state has the legal authority to enter your home whenever it needs to, the 4th Amendment only applies to searches and seizures made against your interests and property where the results or fruits of the search will be used as evidence against you in a criminal matter -- the 4th Amendment does not apply to civil or administrative matters where no jail time (which is referred to as "jeopardy") is at stake...
~~ Evan
It may be doing a good job of heating, but it is sucking down a lot of oil to do so. 30 years ago, they were just not as efficient.
Less than a gallon an hour may seem good, but my use over the past year averages out to 1.28 gallons per DAY. That is heating 2000 sq. ft., laundry, showers, etc.
Your heater is probably 60% to 70% efficient. A new gas condensing unit will be about 95% efficient.
Plain view isn't necessarily plain view. For example there is a court case on the subject that had the cops enter the house on exigent circumstances (bullet had passed through the apartment below). While in there, a cop saw some stereo equipment and moved it around so as to copy down the serial numbers. The evidence that the turntable had been stolen was tossed because the serial numbers were not in plain view even though the equipment was. *IF* something was admitted, and I am not as sure that is as much of slam dunk as some think, it would only be in plain view if it was in the most direct route between the door and the gas meter.
ROFL:
Now there is time to give them notice ?
You mean that the entire area should remain with no gas service so that "proper notice" can be given to the property owners that an emergency exists and the gas company needs access to your meter and inside piping to purge the lines...
ROFL...
So you are in favor of making EVERYONE wait another 48 to 72 hours just so this "notice" can be given before any work is done ? ====================================================
What are you, some kind of fukn idiot? Trader's brother, perhaps? Did I SAY 48-72 hours?
And how long do you think it took the cops and locksmiths to gain entry into hundreds of homes?? A 24 hr notice, broadcast, newapaper, or however, would have done fine, proly saved a fortune in overtime and other expense, etc, AND might have accomplished the task even quicker.
Still ROFL'ing?? Proly....
Few weeks ago, the mayor of New London, CT wanted cops to overlooks small amounts of marijuana if called to a house for a different reason. State attorney told him he could not tell the cops to do so.
You can't grasp the simple reason why a utility responsible for safely managing the use of flammable gas would inspect each device when restoring service?
Most of the gas services in two nearby cities have inside meters. New installs get outside meters. The utility fitted the meter registers with transponders so they now only need to see them once/year.
A big question here is the 6,000 bucks. Is that a typo or real? It's so large that it must be a typo. So, we don't know how much oil he uses in an average season. That would determine the payback time of a new boiler.
Exactly, just like they needed to do when the first time they turned your service on.
And if you were responsible for the safe use of the flammable gas you provided would you have your workers just open the valve and hop back into the truck and go onto to work elsewhere after you made a major repair or would you verify that each connected device was functioning properly?
Same in the two nearby cities near here. The only change they made was to add transponders for remote meter reading.
Was there a problem with these devices *BEFORE* the gas was shut off?
Well duh! If you're going to grow weed, you should prolly have all utility meters moved outside your house first.
My house is metered on the inside with a master shutoff just between the meter and the gas entry point. Unlike water, there is no valve in front of the house.
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He's not my brother, but he's one more person here who disagrees with you and to whom you'll probably be attributing posts from all the rest.
I don't recall any source here that said it was hundreds of homes where they were using locksmiths to gain entry. Only that it was 1600 homes affected that the gas company needed to visit to turn the gas back on and SOME of those required the locksmiths. We don't know what that number actually was.
Yeah, sure, real practical. If the gas company can't reach someone by phone, what is the probability that a 24hr notice is going to work? 24 hour notice in a newspaper? Real practical. That would make the
24 hours into more like 72 hours accounting for the time before publication the ad would have to be placed, allowing for the person to actually buy the paper, read it, etc. You read those little ads in the back? Or are you suggesting they buy the front page? And in the meantime, everyone else sits in a cold house.For the record, there was TV, radio, and newspaper coverage of the event, which would seem to be sufficient, unless you need an ad with your name in it to pay attention.
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