Please recommend a backyard hot tub

[olddog]

Thanks for the reality check. As I recall that sounds about right.

od

[trader4]

.

Total nonsense. My typical coffee maker is rated at 900 watts. That is when it's actually brewing coffee, which as I pointed out, takes about 5 mins. After that, if you leave it on warm, it's probably about 100 or 150WW. So, 5 mins while brewing at 900 watts for 5 mins is like leaving a 100 watt bulb on for 45 mins. Big deal. After that, if it's warming, it's like leaving a 100 watt, or at most a couple 100 watt lights on. A typical big screen TV, which are common today, can easily draw a couple hundred watts. And TVs, like lights, are on for a long time compared to a coffee maker. The big consumers of energy in a home are AC, furnace heater blower, cooking, water heater.... and I could go way down the list before ever getting to the little old coffee maker.

Here in NJ, I pay some of the highest rates for electric in the country, around 17c Kwh. Let's say I made coffee 2X a day, and left it on warming for an hour after that each time.

900W X 5 mins X60 =3D 4.5kwh, 75 cents 150W X 1hr X 60 =3D 9kwh, $1.5

$2.25 is maybe 1% of an electric bill. And that's assuming quite a bit of use.

This is still not as big a difference in energy as you believe. The difference is only in how much heat the spa loses over time at say

100F vs how much it will lose letting it go down to a lower temp, say 80F some of the time. If you use it everday, the difference will be so small, it won't matter. When you reset it back to 100 the next day, the heater will run for almost as long as it would had it just maintained it at 100 all along. Now, if you only use it once a week, then lowering the temp will make a larger difference and could be worthwhile. It's like setting your house thermostat down overnight, it can save maybe 5% or so on your heating bill, but in the grand scheme of things, it still isn't large.

[olddog]

.

Total nonsense. My typical coffee maker is rated at 900 watts. That is when it's actually brewing coffee, which as I pointed out, takes about 5 mins. After that, if you leave it on warm, it's probably about 100 or 150WW. So, 5 mins while brewing at 900 watts for 5 mins is like leaving a 100 watt bulb on for 45 mins. Big deal. After that, if it's warming, it's like leaving a 100 watt, or at most a couple 100 watt lights on. A typical big screen TV, which are common today, can easily draw a couple hundred watts. And TVs, like lights, are on for a long time compared to a coffee maker. The big consumers of energy in a home are AC, furnace heater blower, cooking, water heater.... and I could go way down the list before ever getting to the little old coffee maker.

Here in NJ, I pay some of the highest rates for electric in the country, around 17c Kwh. Let's say I made coffee 2X a day, and left it on warming for an hour after that each time.

900W X 5 mins X60 = 4.5kwh, 75 cents 150W X 1hr X 60 = 9kwh, $1.5

$2.25 is maybe 1% of an electric bill. And that's assuming quite a bit of use.

This is still not as big a difference in energy as you believe. The difference is only in how much heat the spa loses over time at say

100F vs how much it will lose letting it go down to a lower temp, say 80F some of the time. If you use it everday, the difference will be so small, it won't matter. When you reset it back to 100 the next day, the heater will run for almost as long as it would had it just maintained it at 100 all along. Now, if you only use it once a week, then lowering the temp will make a larger difference and could be worthwhile. It's like setting your house thermostat down overnight, it can save maybe 5% or so on your heating bill, but in the grand scheme of things, it still isn't large.

========================

I disagree and you're missing the point but you're the type that thinks they're right regradless so use your ht and soak your head. :-)

od

[salty]

Simple fact: lower average temp = lower energy usage.

[usenet-659f31de7f953aeb]

Power is pretty cheap here to be sure, for the past few months I've been paying about 9 cents per kWh. It's varied between 7 and 8.

Indeed. I don't know of a tracking meter suitable for 240V 50A, other than the kind the utilities use. I'm not sure where to get one of those without breaking the bank.

I'd guess the salesman was playing his pitch on the idea that 120V is "low power" and 240V is "high power" in the minds of lay consumers. You and I know different.

Maybe you had a tub with poor insulation? When I was looking at tubs, I saw a wide variance in insulation quality. One (cheaper, but no less expensive) brand was completely without insulation, their pitch was that the empty space under the tub would catch the waste heat from the motors to help keep the water warm. If I'd bought that line I guess I'd be paying a lot more to keep my tub hot all winter. I decided to pay a little more up front for a well-insulated model.

Not by much. Spa ozonators run between 10 and 50 watts, I think mine is

30W. It's only on when the main pump runs, which is when it's heating or doing a filtration cycle.

I would also agree that gas is the way to go, if you have a choice. Portable plug-and-play spas like mine are inevitably self-contained and all electric. If you already had a gas heater, a place to house it, ready access to gas, a certainty that you'll never move the tub, and a willingness to hack into the tub's plumbing and electrics, then the conversion would be worthwhile. I have none of those things, so electric it is.

[Jim Elbrecht]

-snip-

Ebay- $40

-snip-

If you look at the studies of the tubs whose cabinet is insulated vs the ones whose tub is insulated you'd see they were speaking truth.

Jim

[olddog]

I wouldn't convert one of those portable hot tubs. I'd have a gas one made or buy one of those ready made gas ht. I was fortunate to find mine already made :-)

But I wouldn't own a stand alone ht anyway. Too much trouble keeping a small tub of water clean. (for everyone who says "mine's easy" you don't know what easy is) The reason mine is easy to care for is it's attached to the pool's Baker Hydro sand filter. If you've ever owned a sand filter you'd probably never use any other type. Virtually maintenance free other than occasional backwashing. I was lucky getting this setup.

od

[trader4]

.

Disagree with what and missing what point? You claimed:

"Coffee makers are one of the larger energy

I showed you if you use a coffee maker twice a day, it's around $2 a month. Using it for 5 mins for making coffee is like running a

100Watt light bulb for 45 mins. How could that possibly be one of the larger energy users in a home or expensive relattive to a TV or a light bulb?

So, what exactly is your point?

[trader4]

Gee, like taking the paper cartridge filter out of my spa every couple months and rinsing it with a hose when I change the water isn't easy? Pool filters aren't exactly maintenance free either. The sand or diatamacous ones have to be pressure monitored, then manually backwashed, replenished, etc.

But then you think a coffee maker is one of the large users of energy in a house and that 240V has some inherrent big energy savings advantage compared to 120V too.

[olddog]

Disagree with what and missing what point? You claimed:

"Coffee makers are one of the larger energy

I showed you if you use a coffee maker twice a day, it's around $2 a month. Using it for 5 mins for making coffee is like running a

100Watt light bulb for 45 mins. How could that possibly be one of the larger energy users in a home or expensive relattive to a TV or a light bulb?

So, what exactly is your point?

+++++++++++++++++++++++\\

Your posts are borderline trolling. I'm going to block you.

Have a nice life!

od

[olddog]

Disagree with what and missing what point? You claimed:

"Coffee makers are one of the larger energy

I showed you if you use a coffee maker twice a day, it's around $2 a month. Using it for 5 mins for making coffee is like running a

100Watt light bulb for 45 mins. How could that possibly be one of the larger energy users in a home or expensive relattive to a TV or a light bulb?

So, what exactly is your point?

+++++++++++++++++++++++\\

Your posts are borderline trolling. I'm going to block you.

Have a nice life!

od

[trader4]

...

In other words, rather than simply admit you were wrong, you call those who are right trolls and block them. With that approach, no wonder you don't know what you are talking about. That goes a long way to explaining why you found it too difficult to maintain a spa and think somehow power at 240V is cheap compated to power at 120V.

[1zoutiger]

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I just bought a 4 person hot tub @

I got it installed pretty easy. It's been a blast all summer long. Not much maintenance required due to the fact that it has ozone sterilization.