Plaster over BB vs spackle


Hi,
I have hung BB so I can still choose b/w spackle and plaster.
My prospective cabinet maker told me that plaster is inherently uneven and might require more scribing when installing.
Agree or disagree.
Thanks,
Sam
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That's a bit of an over-simplification. Both veneer plaster and drywall are dependent on the underlying framing. Veneer plaster allows marginally more correction than a drywall job. If you want something straighter still, a full plaster job using screeds to provide a flat, planar surface.
More to the point in my mind, is what exactly is the cabinet maker saying? In any case a tight job requires scribing, so what is he angling for - more money? That doesn't make a lot of sense unless the wall is all over the place. The only real difference is in how much does the cabinet maker need to allow for scribing, and what he is relieving.
R
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wrote:

That's a bit of an over-simplification. Both veneer plaster and drywall are dependent on the underlying framing. Veneer plaster allows marginally more correction than a drywall job. If you want something straighter still, a full plaster job using screeds to provide a flat, planar surface.
More to the point in my mind, is what exactly is the cabinet maker saying? In any case a tight job requires scribing, so what is he angling for - more money? That doesn't make a lot of sense unless the wall is all over the place. The only real difference is in how much does the cabinet maker need to allow for scribing, and what he is relieving.
R
Drywall is alot flatter than plaster because no matter how good the plasterer is it will NEVER be as flat as the board is from the factory....Besides , why in the world would pay premium price ( ATLEAST twice as much) for plaster then cover it up with cabinets..Plus plaster will take ALOT more time , makes a BIG mess and you have to wait till it's CURED before priming and hanging cabinets...A week or 2 depending on conditions...Listen to your contractor...He is right....
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There's no doubt that the drywall sheet itself is flat, but since veneer plaster is 1/8" or less, the veneer plaster surface won't be way out of flat unless the plasterer is a total hackmeister. The final product will depend as much on the cabinet maker's skill and attention to detail as the wall surface he is scribing to.
From the cabinet maker's perspective it doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of difference in time to scribe to pretty much any reasonably flat surface. If the OP wants to insure a flat surface where the cabinetry meets the wall, the cabinetry should be laid out on the wall surface and a 4' screed should be used for the first coat of plaster (or compound). That's the right way to get a tight fit with the least amount of work.
R
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wrote:

There's no doubt that the drywall sheet itself is flat, but since veneer plaster is 1/8" or less, the veneer plaster surface won't be way out of flat unless the plasterer is a total hackmeister. The final product will depend as much on the cabinet maker's skill and attention to detail as the wall surface he is scribing to.
From the cabinet maker's perspective it doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of difference in time to scribe to pretty much any reasonably flat surface. If the OP wants to insure a flat surface where the cabinetry meets the wall, the cabinetry should be laid out on the wall surface and a 4' screed should be used for the first coat of plaster (or compound). That's the right way to get a tight fit with the least amount of work.
R
One coat veneer plaster isn't even done around here by anyone but hacks..Considering your do it right mantra I'm surprised you like it....A true plaster job is basecoat and finish coat and it isn't even close to being as flat as the board...You are wrong on this one Ric....You're making it more complicated and EXPENSIVE than it needs to be...His contractor is correct and he should listen to him...
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Have you ever scribed cabinetry to a wall? To a brick wall? Stone wall?
You are trying to make this a question about drywall, since that is what you know. It's not. It's a question of what is involved in scribing to a _relatively_ flat surface. Bottom line - essentially no difference in scribing time fitting cabinetry to a typical drywall job or a plaster wall (veneer, two coat, three coat, whatever).
You also are off on a number of other factors. A week or two for painting veneer plaster? There is an increased waiting time prior to painting, but it's more like two or three days unless you're in New Orleans in the summer. Exaggerating to make a point doesn't make the point. This from the National Gypsum web site: "How long after the application of a gypsum veneer plaster must I wait before painting can begin? Under good drying conditions, veneer plaster may be painted 48 hours after application. It is essential that veneer plaster be sound and completely dry before painting. Alkali-resistant primers specifically formulated for use over new veneer plaster will permit decorating with oil or latex type paints.
Note: Conventional lath and plaster systems require a 30-day drying time before painting."
I find it curious that you ignored my comment about using a screed to level out the compound/plaster to straighten out the wall wherever the cabinetry meets the wall. That is the best and easiest way to get the wall dead flat where you need it.
You seem to be assuming that the wall framing is dead flat and perfectly in plane. Here's a hint - it ain't. No such thing unless someone took a power planer to the stud before the drywall went up. Framing can easily be out 1/8" to 1/4" over 4', which is far more than the variance caused by applying a veneer plaster or taped/floated/ mudded finish to drywall would ever be.
The OP is certainly talking about veneer plaster. Veneer plaster is superior to a straight drywall/mud job for a number of reasons. Since the OP already installed blue board, he's obviously leaning that way. The only question he's asking is about the scribing, and I'm telling him that his cabinet guy is making it sound more difficult than it is.
To the OP: post this on the rec.woodworking newsgroup and see what cabinet people say about scribing. They're the ones you should be asking.
R
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wrote:

Have you ever scribed cabinetry to a wall? To a brick wall? Stone wall?
You are trying to make this a question about drywall, since that is what you know. It's not. It's a question of what is involved in scribing to a _relatively_ flat surface. Bottom line - essentially no difference in scribing time fitting cabinetry to a typical drywall job or a plaster wall (veneer, two coat, three coat, whatever).
You also are off on a number of other factors. A week or two for painting veneer plaster? There is an increased waiting time prior to painting, but it's more like two or three days unless you're in New Orleans in the summer. Exaggerating to make a point doesn't make the point. This from the National Gypsum web site: "How long after the application of a gypsum veneer plaster must I wait before painting can begin? Under good drying conditions, veneer plaster may be painted 48 hours after application. It is essential that veneer plaster be sound and completely dry before painting. Alkali-resistant primers specifically formulated for use over new veneer plaster will permit decorating with oil or latex type paints.
Note: Conventional lath and plaster systems require a 30-day drying time before painting."
I find it curious that you ignored my comment about using a screed to level out the compound/plaster to straighten out the wall wherever the cabinetry meets the wall. That is the best and easiest way to get the wall dead flat where you need it.
You seem to be assuming that the wall framing is dead flat and perfectly in plane. Here's a hint - it ain't. No such thing unless someone took a power planer to the stud before the drywall went up. Framing can easily be out 1/8" to 1/4" over 4', which is far more than the variance caused by applying a veneer plaster or taped/floated/ mudded finish to drywall would ever be.
The OP is certainly talking about veneer plaster. Veneer plaster is superior to a straight drywall/mud job for a number of reasons. Since the OP already installed blue board, he's obviously leaning that way. The only question he's asking is about the scribing, and I'm telling him that his cabinet guy is making it sound more difficult than it is.
To the OP: post this on the rec.woodworking newsgroup and see what cabinet people say about scribing. They're the ones you should be asking.
R
Wall framing has nothing to do with scribing...HUMPS in the wall do..Be it a veneer hackjob single coat or the REAL 2 coat system (Basecoat/Finishcoat plaster)....No way in hell is single coat veneer superior to drywall....Basecoat/finish coat is the best...Only hacks do single coat veneer.....Your the one who's making it more complicated than it needs to be...His contractor agrees with me as well and he should listen to him...Unless you're gonna go do it for him and pay the extra to the plasterer to fuck around all day with with screeds and all the other bullshit your spreading only to cover it up with cabinets..The studs being out will only show on top , which you can't see and the bottom which will be hidden by the back splash...It's the SIDES he will have to scribe if you get the wall all humped out..It takes 1 or 2 weeks for 2 coat plaster to cure....Quit while your ahead....You may know carpentry but you don't know shit about drywall and plaster....
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1). Your . key seems to be stuck. You only need one at the end of a sentence. 2). You just said that the wall framing has nothing to do with scribing. Scribing has everything to do with wall surface straightness. You're advising the OP to go with a standard drywall finish. Drywall cannot do anything but follow the framing. Therefore framing straightness has everything to do with scribing cabinetry, unless you're building out the wall surface - and you're saying _not_ to do that. 3). The OP never said what type of cabinetry was being installed - you seem to have assumed it was kitchen cabinetry. I didn't. If it is a kitchen, the scribing issue may well be even less of an issue. 4). Since you've admitted you don't know WTF you're talking about in scribing cabinetry to a wall, why don't you entertain me with another WAG about how much of a time difference there will be between scribing to a plastered wall versus standard drywall. 5). I'm saying that the time difference is negligible, that the OP's cabinet guy is fishing for more money, and that even if the wall is slightly out, either plaster or compound can easily take care of the discrepancy where needed.
To sum up: you make bad assumptions and argue about the "right" way to do stuff with which you have no experience.
If the OP wants to find out what the situation really is, all he has to do is to put a 4' straightedge on the wall where the exposed edges of the cabinetry will have to be scribed to the wall. Then he can have an intelligent conversation with his cabinet guy (notice he said prospective cabinet guy - maybe he should keep looking instead of blindly accepting one guy's opinion).
R
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wrote:

1). Your . key seems to be stuck. You only need one at the end of a sentence. 2). You just said that the wall framing has nothing to do with scribing. Scribing has everything to do with wall surface straightness. You're advising the OP to go with a standard drywall finish. Drywall cannot do anything but follow the framing. Therefore framing straightness has everything to do with scribing cabinetry, unless you're building out the wall surface - and you're saying _not_ to do that. 3). The OP never said what type of cabinetry was being installed - you seem to have assumed it was kitchen cabinetry. I didn't. If it is a kitchen, the scribing issue may well be even less of an issue. 4). Since you've admitted you don't know WTF you're talking about in scribing cabinetry to a wall, why don't you entertain me with another WAG about how much of a time difference there will be between scribing to a plastered wall versus standard drywall. 5). I'm saying that the time difference is negligible, that the OP's cabinet guy is fishing for more money, and that even if the wall is slightly out, either plaster or compound can easily take care of the discrepancy where needed.
To sum up: you make bad assumptions and argue about the "right" way to do stuff with which you have no experience.
If the OP wants to find out what the situation really is, all he has to do is to put a 4' straightedge on the wall where the exposed edges of the cabinetry will have to be scribed to the wall. Then he can have an intelligent conversation with his cabinet guy (notice he said prospective cabinet guy - maybe he should keep looking instead of blindly accepting one guy's opinion).
R
Since the OP has disappeared we will never know I guess...You still don't know SHIT about drywall or spackle as you girls call it...When and IF the OP shows up we will continue this.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
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says...

Not sure what BB is, backer board? At any rate, are you proposing to finish an entire wall with spackle? That would be very, very, unusual.
--
Dennis


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BB=Blue Board , ie. Plaster Board....Skim coating walls with joint compound isn't that unusual...I do it occasionally...Sometimes it's just a wall that is side lit by by the sun that shows everything and needs it and I have one contractor that likes it and pays extra to get it..No worries about ANYTHING showing..After the wall is finished coated as normal I skimcoat the whole wall or ceiling twice and sand it....Really looks good too.....My house I did the same...Poor mans plaster I call it...LOL...
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snipped-for-privacy@fairpoint.net says...

Sure, I can see skimming a wall with joint compund. But that isn't spackling. I guess the OP was using the term loosely
--
Dennis


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WTF are you babbling about...Spackling is just another word for mudding or taping with joint compound..The term is commonly used by girls and people who don't know any better...HTH...
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IF the framing is so out of whack this is something you have to worry about then straighten the framing while you can.
Jimmie
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